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Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 23:42:07 GMT
From: milt brewster <milt73nopsamc.net>
Subject: Re: Saab Complaint


In article <bjffe2$ijn6q$1nopsam34476.news.uni-berlin.de>, davehinznopsamcop.net says... > On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 04:06:51 GMT, milt brewster <milt73nopsamc.net> wrote: > > In article <bjdes4$i67t0$1nopsam34476.news.uni-berlin.de>, > > davehinznopsamcop.net says... > >> On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 18:50:56 GMT, milt brewster <milt73nopsamc.net> wrote: > >> > In article <bjat1j$h21m6$1nopsam34476.news.uni-berlin.de>, > >> > davehinznopsamcop.net says... > >> >> [snip] > >> >> What was the cause of the blowout? Did you have your pressures > >> >> set properly? Does your car have an alignment problem? Are you > >> >> trying to solve the problem, or just complain about it? > > > > My car is well maintained. So are the tires. I do not have an > > alignment problem. The second blowout was a rear tire anyway. > > The problem is not something simple. > > So, now you're telling us (finally) that it's one front and > one back, maybe? Are they both on the same side of the car? > 20-questions time here. If you want helpful suggestions, don't > expect us to draw these things out one post at a time. If you > just want to complain, well, that's your choice. Left front; Right Rear. Alignment fine both times. No obvious external punctures or cuts both times. > > I am indeed reporting this problem to this newsgroup. If you call > > it "complaining," then so be it. It's still a valid issue, > > however you choose to characterize it. > > OK, everyone, listen up. Some guy in Califorina had two blowouts of > Michelin tires on his Saab. > > There. Two data points for michelin tire failures. We're up to, er, let's > see, two. You are reeel good at quibbling. You are not so good at examining a problem in the way a QA Engineer or Operations Manager at a well-managed auto company would examine the problem. I have already responded to you at length about why my personal experience might very well be important to a lot of Saab owners. ... fact is; you don't need to have a significant fraction of users reporting a problem for it to exist in a complex product like an automobile or a computer. With a complex product, a problem serious enough to cost a Manufacturer lots of money can indeed exist in less than one percent of its product users. As an example, I read that Ford SUV tire problems occurred in less than a tenth of one percent of their owners (one in a thousand), when Ford finally had to issue a Recall notice and the first cases went to Trial. I am therefore not surprised that this general-purpose enthusiasts' newsgroup isn't overwhelmed with tire blowout stories. They are nonetheless important. ***** I've gone back and re-read your responses to my earlier post, where I discussed this in more detail. It's apparent that you didn't understand the basic concepts I described there. I guess you don't have much background in basic QA engineering or Business Operations Management and research. That's OK. Please go back and re-read what I wrote. It is much more important to you and the major purchase choices you make in your own private life than you might have thought. > > This could be a very serious issue for owners of late model > > Saabs. > > To you, it's very serious. To the population of Saab drivers, it seems not > to be, since nobody else has reported same here. You could check > The Saab Network, I suppose. In fact, that would be a good next place for > you to do some homework. Maybe someone else there has seen this. Indeed, some of them have. Once again, it is apparent to me that you don't understand the basic Engineering and QA problems that cause product failures in complex modern technical products. > > So could dealer relations and GM resolution practices, > > which have completely failed in my case. ALL this belongs on this > > newsgroup, whether you call it a minor issue or not, or > > conveniently dismiss me as a "complainer." > > You are accusing Saab of "criminal" behavior, without having any basis > for such a claim. What were you expecting, a group-hug? I was expecting at least a few knowledgeable posters here in the Saab group to focus on the problem I reported, and NOT to start with personal namecalling. Focusing on the issue instead of the emotional content of a trouble call, is an elementary help-desk management technique. I thought there were some people here with the tech background and business experience to realize that. Apparently, I was wrong. This surprises me. It is common practice in lots of other Usenet technical newsgroups -- esp. the computer newsgroups, where people are often angry and frustrated, and the threads settle down enough to resolve whatever problem that was reported. Even the other auto newsgroups perform better than alt.autos.saab has responded here. This group is behaving more like a cliquish TeenBunny fan gossip group than a real automobile newsgroup. ORIGINAL POST: Brittany Spears is singing off-key! GROUP RESPONSE: You moron! You arrogant prick! You troll! > > While I am trying to resolve this problem, I am completely stuck. > > The dealer won't deal -- says he's not responsible. For the first > > blowout, he charged me $275 and took two days to install the new > > tire. Michelin won't even talk to me on the phone. All I can do > > is buy yet another tire and keep on driving. > > What kind of tire did you buy? I have a Dunlop on the Right Rear now because it was all I could find. I intend to replace all four tires as soon as I can find a reliable, well-made midprice tire. Researching cars and tires has changed in the last few years. I have no idea what tire I really should be buying, how to personally examine a new tire for design and quality, or what to look for in a tire Warrantee these days. > > >> >> What is the cause of this atypical problem with your particular > >> >> car? > > > > I don't know. > > Exactly. So how do you justify the accusation of "criminal" behavior? I had an experience that normally only manufacturers' Negligence would cause. Negligence constitutes "criminal" product liability on the part of Saab and Michelin.. > > I believe that the Michelin tires that came with my Saab are > > faulty. Two of the four tires that came with my car have had > > explosive sidewall blowouts on the freeway in less than ten > > thousand miles of light driving. > > > > Either Michelin or Saab should replace them. I should have new, > > free tires. > > So take your tires, and your homework, to small claims court & let a > judge decide. In other words, you see my point but don't want to deal with it. > > > I would also like to know if national service records would show > > that more than around 1000 new Saabs a year have experienced > > sudden sidewall blowout failures from OEM Michelin tires during > > freeway driving. If the number is this high, then Saab has a > > serious product safety problem. It should immediately replace all > > these tires on any Saab they've sold in the last four years or > > so, with less than maybe 20,000 miles on OEM Michelin tires. > > Sounds like you have a lot of homework to do then, doesn't it. > (all of which you should be doing first, before throwing your > accusations around, by the way). Nope. My experience gives me every justification to raise these questions; right here in this newsgroup. I hope that Saab owners like you can either affirm similar experiences, or produce information that would argue against my strong suspicions here. To the contrary, you guys are showing posting behavior I expect to see from kids in a showbiz fan gossip group: [snip] mb

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