Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:39:37 -0400 From: Malt_Hound <Malt_Houndnospamm*yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Maintain Your Identity - Saab
Saab Guy wrote: > On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:37:52 -0400 > Malt_Hound <Malt_Houndnospamm*yahoo.com> wrote: > > >>Tex wrote: >> >>>"Malt_Hound" <Malt_Houndnospamm*yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>news:SJqdnbTg_rtFYiLfRVn-3wnospamphia.com... >>> >>> >>>>Tex wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>For cornering, I give the edge to the Saab. The 9-3 tracks any corner >>>>>you give it w/o so much as a flinch. >>>>> >>>> >>>>You apparently did not push them very hard. >>> >>> >>>OK..._you_ tell me if I pushed the 9-3 hard enough. On several runs I got >>>it up to 60-65 mph (100 km/h) then, at short distance (less than 40 >>>ft...about 1/2 sec of drive time) and w/o braking (and other runs w/braking >>>but f/higher speeds / & w/& w/o esp), steered it around an object directly >>>in the line of travel. Now, I can't say it was easy doing this maneuvre, >>>but the car definitely followed my command unhesitantly. >>> >>> >>> >>>>The BMW, with its RWD and 50/50 weight distribution, >>> >>> >>>Actually, under hard braking (typical of an emergency accident avoidance >>>situation or simply coming into a curve/corner at high speed w/brakes >>>applied) a car will naturally lurch forward, shifting its weight >>>distribution directly onto the front tires. This is good because this is >>>exactly where the car needs the best traction (both for steering control and >>>braking). So whilst from a topical viewpoint, a car with a 50/50 weight >>>distribution _sounds_ good, in reality a car which has a slight weight bias >>>towards the front wheels will indeed provide the driver better control in >>>both steering and braking. >>> >> >>A smart driver tries *not* do his steering and hard braking at the same >>time. It's better to get the majority of braking done *before* entering >>the corner and the only light braking if any, transitioning to >>acceleration on the exit. >> >>Yes, under heavy braking almost all of any car's weight will be toward >>the front. And in the reverse situation, under acceleration, the weight >>is shifted toward the rear, which is another reason that it makes a lot >>of sense to have the drive wheels back there, huh? The 50/50 weight >>distribution thing is a very salient measurement. >> >> >>>>is relatively neutral with only a touch of understeer, which can be >>>>modulated with varying the input to the (rear) drive wheels. The SAAB >>>>being a FWD wants to plow through corners with incredible amount of >>>>understeer and pressing the accelerator only makes the situation worse. >>> >>> >>>And you've experienced this firsthand? While this may be true for other fwd >>>cars, it's definitely, not true for the 9-3. >> >>Of course. >> >> >>>You're bringing this topic up with the right person. Having driven the 9-3, >>>9-5 and 9-2x under conditions which should have lead all three to illustrate >>>severe understeer, I found neither of them to display severe understeer. I >>>actually did find the 9-2x a bit unruly in the slalom (w/late apex turns) >>>but eventually managed to get it to perform well. The 9-3's and 9-5's both >>>performed very well. Despite its fwd platform, the 9-3 displayed no >>>understeer at all. It gripped amazingly well through the turns w/o even >>>having to tap the brakes once for additional downforce (which I had to do >>>numerous times with the awd 9-2x). >>> >>>I had an accompaying professional race car driver whilst doing these >>>maneuvres and he walked away saying the same things about the car (yes, he >>>was driving it as well). >>> >>>- tex >>> >>> >> >> >>I must confess that I have not driven one of the newer 9-3SS, and >>perhaps these are better. But I have my doubts as I *have* owned a >>2000 9-3SE CV and it had serious under-steer, as well as torque steer, >>cowl shake and host of other handling ills. I got rid of it 6 months >>after I bought it. I also currently own a '98 900SE and a '93 9000CSET >>and have in the past owned a '93 9000T and a '90 C900. These all pushed >>pretty somewhat in the corners, though not as bad as the '00 ragtop. >> >> I also presently own 3 RWD BMWs, all of which handle far better, IMO. >> It is simply the physics of Front vs Rear wheel drive. It is a >>personal preference, I suppose, but the contrast is so stark *to me* >>that I have difficulty understanding anyone preferring FWD *handling* to >>RWD. There are other attributes that I could see could make one prefer >>a SAAB over a BMW, but I just don't see handling being one. >> >>-Fred W > > > No TORQUE steer PERIOD in the 9-3SS, a completely different and stiffer drive! > > Saab did it well, using this platform. > > SaabGuy > Hmmmm. That is news to me, good news. I will have to test-drive one then. Especially considering the fire-sale prices they seem to be going at these days. I've been tempted to go to the local SAAB stealer anyway and test-drive a 9-2 turbo just for grins. I think the AWD would be kind of fun to play around with and a boxer engine seems attractive to me, even if it is a Subaru. It appears you can pick one of those up for a very short song. -Fred W
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