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Seal Showdown Posted by Justin VanAbrahams [Email] (#32) [Profile/Gallery] (more from Justin VanAbrahams) on Fri, 9 Mar 2018 12:07:16 In Reply to: Auto Trans Torque Converter Seal, Justin VanAbrahams [Profile/Gallery] , Sat, 3 Mar 2018 14:18:50 Members do not see ads below this line. - Help Keep This Site Online - Signup |
Received my genuine Saab torque converter seal yesterday, so I could do a comparison.
I have a National 223830, a Timken 223830, the genuine Saab part, and a used SKF 14772.
[IMG]http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/0193se_tcsealcomp1.jpg">
Each of these is about $5 through rockauto, except the genuine Saab part which is $32 via rockauto.
[IMG]http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/0193se_tcsealcomp2.jpg">
Some differences - the National and Timken seal are both fully coated to help them seal in their bores. The SKF and Saab part - the latter of which is made by Koyo - have rubber lips but exposed metal shells.
It's a bit difficult to see in this photo, but the Saab/Koyo seal is demonstrably shorter than any of the others.
[IMG]http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/0193se_tcsealcomp3.jpg">
Beyond the external height difference, there are also difference in the relative placement of the sealing surfaces on the ID. The SKF seal moves its sealing surface a bit further away from the transmission, deeper onto the hub, but I can't say that means anything.
I have two transmissions, both used. The first one did 300 miles, then 1000 miles before leaking. The second pass I replaced it with the second transmission, which did about 16 miles, then 4 miles before leaking. So, each transmission has been in twice, each has had two brand new SKF seals.
The first transmission - the one on the bench right now - has some grooving on the torque converter hub. I think I posted pictures of that earlier. Lacking other information, it prompted me to check out other used transmissions at the dismantler to see if they had any visible defects. They didn't, so that raised some alarms with me that something about my hardware caused that problem. When I pulled the transmission yesterday, I braced for the worst.
[IMG]http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/0193se_tc2hub.jpg">
However, that hub on my second transmission's torque converter looks good. Similar wear to what I saw at the yard, no defects. My fingernail glides smoothly over the surface - there are some polished areas as expected, but no damage. My take away is that the first transmission just had some abnormal wear - and that isn't inherently a death sentence. Doesn't matter anyway, I decided to put Trans #2 back in because a) it was taking a lot less time to develop issues, and b) I think it shifted slightly better. :)
That left me in the conundrum of which seal to use. Retrospectively, I wish I'd bought another new SKF seal, but I did a *pretty* good job of removing it without damaging it so I'm 70% confident nothing about its fit was damaged. Non-scientific observations:
1. SKF seal glides easily over the TC hub, with minimal deflection of the sealing surface. The rubber is quite rubbery, feels like soft silicone.
2. The National seal is a slightly tighter fit, with substantial deflection of the sealing surface. The rubber is quite a bit firmer than the SKF.
3. The Timken seal has an almost tight fit, deflection somewhere between the SKF and National. Rubber feels similar to the National seal.
4. The Saab/Koyo seal fits similarly to the SKF seal, with deflection similar to the Timken seal. Rubber is somewhere between the SKF and National seal.
I agonized over this data for a long time. The Saab/Koyo seal intellectually seemed the sure shot, but I was tempted by the tighter fits of the National & Timken seals. After playing with the seals a bit longer, I decided to give the nod to the Timken seal. The tighter fit, lower cost, and sheer curiosity of "will another seal work here" seemed like the better call than the others.
[IMG]http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/0193se_tctimken.jpg">
The car is about 80% back together. Just need to put the LCAs on and the intake plumbing and it's good to go. Hopefully can do that tomorrow and then we see what happens...
posted by 12.195.130...
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