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Saab/Volvo Safety numbers from Folksam...
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Posted by James [Email] (more from James) on Fri, 11 Mar 2011 08:01:13 Share Post by Email
In Reply to: Safety Tests: Misread Table!, Cary, Thu, 10 Mar 2011 04:23:27
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Yes, so I may have to backpedal here... I remembered seeing an older Folksam report with the c900 rated better than the ng900, but perhaps my memory is failing me here... I believe it was the last one where the 9-5 was rated "safest car in sweden" (2003?) and I believe the 99 was rated also... unfortunately not everything is readily obtainable on the web... but...

I dug up the 2005 Folksam report (oldest I could find) and the c900 is rated as "at least 15% safer than the average car" whereas both the ng900 and og9-3 are rated "at least 30% safer than the average car", so indeed better... The 9000 and 9-5 both also fall in the latter category as do the Volvo 850/S70/V70/S60 etc. whereas the Volvo 200/700/900 series cars and V40 fall into the "at least 15% safer category" like the c900... strangely, there is no indication of the 9-5 being safer than the others in this report, as I remember (a "safest" car designation, for more than 40%)...

That the c900 was between 15% and 30% safer than the average car in 2005 is pretty darn good, especially considering the absence of airbags + abs in most models...

Fast forward to 2009. Folksam changed the thresholds a little + new cars have improved so the average has moved up... c900 and NG900 are now both rated "average", ie <20% safer than the average car (but at least as safe as the average). The og9-3 and the new 9-3ss are between 20-30% safer than the average car (as is the 9000), and the 9-5 is more than 30% safer... Big volvos made after 2000 (S60/70/V70/S80) all share the 9-5 category... Volvo 200/700/900 series, 850, and S40 are in the 20-30% range and V40 is in the <20% range (probably both V40/S40 are right around 20%)...

what does all this say? well, first of all that Volvo + Saab did good stuff back in the '70s to make cars that are as good or better than average in 2009 with all the airbags and other technology! It is also clear that none of this is simple... eg if you look at how the ng900 and og9-3 have moved around relative to each other over the years... Saab did major work on the 9-3 to make it safer (as evidenced in crash test results also)... just looking at the color/category for 2005 would not lead one to believe that... I wish raw numbers were available on an annual basis (even the hdli numbers available to the public are not very raw)...

It is also interesting to note that the Volvo 200 series reports in a higher category than c900 in 2009... they are probably fairly similar (ie c900 is probably close to 20% but just under and Volvos just a bit over 20%)... iirc, the c900 hdli numbers back when they were selling c900s were tops in that class (ahead of the 200 series)... Saab ran an advert to that effect... though possible, that's a pretty big risk to advertise if it's not true!

there is probably some correlation of driver habits etc... it must also effectively figure in corrosion/deterioration of the vehicles, though I'm not sure for how long results are integrated? a lot can be muddled up with mediocre statistical analysis!

it is also interesting to compare with recent hdli numbers, which don't have stats for c900s but do for the more recent Saabs/Volvos mentioned... they all do very well and from Folksam the c900 is comparable/not far behind... and yet, modern (usually smallish) cars that get great iihs ratings get mediocre/below average hdli scores (eg Yaris=177 vs S40=77, number = %medical claim $ vs avg of 100%)... the 2009 Folksam report rates some of those same cars as "safest choice in its class" based on crash test numbers alone (inadequate real data to report?)... that said, demographics may play a role in the stats, whereas not in the crash tests...

this last item is a pet peeve of mine, when people tell me crap like "such and such small car is safer than your old Saab" or 5th Gear did a test crashing a small car into a volvo 940 (which Folksam repeated btw) + that "proves" modern small cars are safer... no, it proves a small car with strong cage + limited crumple zone, when put in a test that is well designed to take advantage of the Volvo's weakness (offset crash), can use the Volvo's crumple zone to protect the small car's occupants... it's a fair test, but it would be interesting to see which would fare better vs, eg a pickup truck... unless the insurance injury payouts are wrong (our insurance rates are based on them, so they'd better be right!), and the Volvo does significantly better in that regard than (eg) the Yaris used in the test (see hdli numbers above)... not to say small cars haven't improved, but the extent has been overstated imho... physics presents limits...

ok, enough ranting, I'm probably mainly preaching to the converted ;-)...

James...


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