Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 23:42:22 GMT From: milt brewster <milt73nopsamc.net> Subject: Re: Saab Complaint
In article <BB80BCBB.9588%pjghnopsamyonder.co.uk>, pjghnopsamyonder.co.uk says... > in article MPG.19c3c910fd1bd7c1989dbanopsam.sonic.net, milt brewster at > milt73nopsamc.net wrote on 06/09/2003 19:51: > > > In article <BB7F542C.9514%pjghnopsamyonder.co.uk>, > > pjghnopsamyonder.co.uk says... > > > >> in article MPG.19c2951e57a2b84989db2nopsam.sonic.net, milt brewster at > >> milt73nopsamc.net wrote on 05/09/2003 21:42: > >> > >>> Less than 11,000 miles on a 2000 9-3 coupe. > >>> > >>> SECOND catastrophic freeway blowout in six months. Both quick > >>> and dangerous. > >>> > >>> NEW Michelin tires have/had 11,000 miles on them. The first > >>> blowout occurred at only 5500 miles. The Dealer has refused to > >>> deal with the issue. > >> > >> Tyres are tyres. What does this have to do with Saab? If you're not happy > >> with Michelin, then buy another brand. I have Michelins on the front and > >> Avons (my old front set) on the rear. They seem fine. > > > > Good for you. I hope your luck continues. Nobody should have two > > blowouts on the freeway in six months, driving a new car. Not > > even the people in this thread who have been frankly insulting. > > Agreed, but I think you've been an unwitting victim of plain bad luck. > > > Sometimes tires are not made well. Tire failures are always a > > safety issue, and American Tire Manufacturers are supposed to > > recall tire batches that do not meet manufacturing standards. > > > > From calling around yesterday, I find that around five Michelins > > are experiencing blowouts out of a hundred on new small cars -- > > this is very high, and Michelin should recall these tires. Saab > > owners should know that Michelins are failing catastrophically in > > high numbers like this. Because it is a product safety hazard, > > the Saab Company (GM) should replace these tires. > > On what do you base this statement? Is there some un/official tyre watchdog > that holds some stats on this kind of thing? I'm interested. Actually in the US, there is supposed to be government oversight of the design, manufacture, marketing and servicing of tires. They are considered to be a critical safety product, and tire manufacturers are supposed to be held to a higher quality standard than might be reasonable for other less critical products. My phone calls to tire dealers indicate a lot, but prove little. They DO give me reason to report a one-in-twenty failure rate for my Michelin tires, and to then ask the questions I'm asking. > > >> Were yours at the correct pressure? When did you last check the pressures? > >> It's one of those things, along with fluids, that should be checked on a > >> regular basis to ensure that the car is running as per the manufacturer's > >> intention and to keep you safe. > > > I am very careful with my tires and made no obvious errors like > > this. I hit no potholes. This was not "road damage," as US Tire > > mfgrs like to claim. > > >> If you've had two blow-outs so far, I'd suggest you're running them more > >> than a little over-pressure. > > > Good guess, but nope. I check my tires carefully and had no > > reason to suspect this was going to happen. > > Okay, that's good. My apologies if you read my comment as an aspersion. > > >>> Today I would trade this Saab straight across for a comparable > >>> Honda Civic ... > >> > >> Is there a comparable Honda Civic? > > > No, and that's my point here. The Honda Civic sells for 60% of > > the cost of a 9-3 Saab, yet the Civic has a better safety and > > mechanical record -- and certainly has better customer care. > > While I like to drive a car that's fun, I MUST drive a car that's > > safe and reliable. > > Oh, you mean "if" there was ... No. I mean that even with its flaws and its obvious price differential, Honda Civics seem to be built to higher quality standards, and are safer to drive, less expensive to maintain, last as long, and have better customer care than Saabs do, and those points have become a critical issues for me this week. > > Saab should be purple with embarrassment that a car like the > > Honda Civic can outperform it. > > In what way? Style? Comfort? Speed? MPG? 0-60? Mileage? Tyre choice? Balance of reliability, maintenance costs, product safety, customer service, and being fun to drive. Saab is not winning the sales battle in the US, partly because it comes up short in these areas compared to even inexpensive Japanese cars like Toyota corollas and Honda civics. Being a Saab owner, I regret having to say this. > > Do you want to play top trumps, or make a point? > > > And I meant what I said: If somebody made it easy for me, I'd > > trade my Saab for a comparable Japanese car this week. I need a > > car that is safe and reliable. > > ... and presumably if you traded for, say, a Toyota Corolla, which came with > Michelin tyres (as my father-in-law's did) you'd have the tyres changed? I sure would this week. > > The tyres you run on your car is your own responsibility. If you saw the > tyres Saab put on their cars as sub-standard, you should've changed them > straight away. Lucky for me, the only new cars I've bought have been Fiats, > who use Pirellis :) > > If your point was to slander Michelin, then I think you've made that point. > > Perhaps if you just paid out for a new set of tyres (all 4), you'd feel > better about your Saab. You have said that you used to be a Saab fanatic, so > why let a set of rubber spoil that? > > Paul > Some good points, some not; Paul. Here in the US, we don't have much of a tire choice when we take delivery on a new car: We pretty much have to take what the Manufacturer insists they will provide. We have no chance to research, choose, inspect and verify the tires that come on our new cars. Taken in general, American new car buyers have to trust the legal representations and Warrantees we are handed at the dealership when we take delivery of our new cars. Certainly in general, Saab can not expect owners to throw away a new set of tires on a brand new car on the first day, particularly when we don't know whether it will void part of our Warrantees and probably don't know much about the quality of the OEM tires anyway. New buyers must legally rely on the Saab's promise that our new car is designed well and safe to drive as they have equipped it. I am finding that my Saab wasn't careful; and that Saab won't stand behind the problem that has resulted. The fact remains that I had a problem with my Saab that I shouldn't have had. Saab and Michelin need to be held to account for that. You can't call it "slander," because I am fairly describing events that really did happen to me. Besides, the word you wanted was "libel" in the United States. Even at that, my comments come under the heading of "fair comment," which means I get to express my opinion about Saab and Michelin as loudly as I want to. mb
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