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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:19:06 GMT
From: Saab Guy <nothingnospamo.com>
Subject: Re: Maintain Your Identity - Saab


On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:39:37 -0400 Malt_Hound <Malt_Houndnospamm*yahoo.com> wrote: > Saab Guy wrote: > > On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:37:52 -0400 > > Malt_Hound <Malt_Houndnospamm*yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > >>Tex wrote: > >> > >>>"Malt_Hound" <Malt_Houndnospamm*yahoo.com> wrote in message > >>>news:SJqdnbTg_rtFYiLfRVn-3wnospamphia.com... > >>> > >>> > >>>>Tex wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>For cornering, I give the edge to the Saab. The 9-3 tracks any corner > >>>>>you give it w/o so much as a flinch. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>>You apparently did not push them very hard. > >>> > >>> > >>>OK..._you_ tell me if I pushed the 9-3 hard enough. On several runs I got > >>>it up to 60-65 mph (100 km/h) then, at short distance (less than 40 > >>>ft...about 1/2 sec of drive time) and w/o braking (and other runs w/braking > >>>but f/higher speeds / & w/& w/o esp), steered it around an object directly > >>>in the line of travel. Now, I can't say it was easy doing this maneuvre, > >>>but the car definitely followed my command unhesitantly. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>The BMW, with its RWD and 50/50 weight distribution, > >>> > >>> > >>>Actually, under hard braking (typical of an emergency accident avoidance > >>>situation or simply coming into a curve/corner at high speed w/brakes > >>>applied) a car will naturally lurch forward, shifting its weight > >>>distribution directly onto the front tires. This is good because this is > >>>exactly where the car needs the best traction (both for steering control and > >>>braking). So whilst from a topical viewpoint, a car with a 50/50 weight > >>>distribution _sounds_ good, in reality a car which has a slight weight bias > >>>towards the front wheels will indeed provide the driver better control in > >>>both steering and braking. > >>> > >> > >>A smart driver tries *not* do his steering and hard braking at the same > >>time. It's better to get the majority of braking done *before* entering > >>the corner and the only light braking if any, transitioning to > >>acceleration on the exit. > >> > >>Yes, under heavy braking almost all of any car's weight will be toward > >>the front. And in the reverse situation, under acceleration, the weight > >>is shifted toward the rear, which is another reason that it makes a lot > >>of sense to have the drive wheels back there, huh? The 50/50 weight > >>distribution thing is a very salient measurement. > >> > >> > >>>>is relatively neutral with only a touch of understeer, which can be > >>>>modulated with varying the input to the (rear) drive wheels. The SAAB > >>>>being a FWD wants to plow through corners with incredible amount of > >>>>understeer and pressing the accelerator only makes the situation worse. > >>> > >>> > >>>And you've experienced this firsthand? While this may be true for other fwd > >>>cars, it's definitely, not true for the 9-3. > >> > >>Of course. > >> > >> > >>>You're bringing this topic up with the right person. Having driven the 9-3, > >>>9-5 and 9-2x under conditions which should have lead all three to illustrate > >>>severe understeer, I found neither of them to display severe understeer. I > >>>actually did find the 9-2x a bit unruly in the slalom (w/late apex turns) > >>>but eventually managed to get it to perform well. The 9-3's and 9-5's both > >>>performed very well. Despite its fwd platform, the 9-3 displayed no > >>>understeer at all. It gripped amazingly well through the turns w/o even > >>>having to tap the brakes once for additional downforce (which I had to do > >>>numerous times with the awd 9-2x). > >>> > >>>I had an accompaying professional race car driver whilst doing these > >>>maneuvres and he walked away saying the same things about the car (yes, he > >>>was driving it as well). > >>> > >>>- tex > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >>I must confess that I have not driven one of the newer 9-3SS, and > >>perhaps these are better. But I have my doubts as I *have* owned a > >>2000 9-3SE CV and it had serious under-steer, as well as torque steer, > >>cowl shake and host of other handling ills. I got rid of it 6 months > >>after I bought it. I also currently own a '98 900SE and a '93 9000CSET > >>and have in the past owned a '93 9000T and a '90 C900. These all pushed > >>pretty somewhat in the corners, though not as bad as the '00 ragtop. > >> > >> I also presently own 3 RWD BMWs, all of which handle far better, IMO. > >> It is simply the physics of Front vs Rear wheel drive. It is a > >>personal preference, I suppose, but the contrast is so stark *to me* > >>that I have difficulty understanding anyone preferring FWD *handling* to > >>RWD. There are other attributes that I could see could make one prefer > >>a SAAB over a BMW, but I just don't see handling being one. > >> > >>-Fred W > > > > > > No TORQUE steer PERIOD in the 9-3SS, a completely different and stiffer drive! > > > > Saab did it well, using this platform. > > > > SaabGuy > > > > Hmmmm. That is news to me, good news. I will have to test-drive one > then. Especially considering the fire-sale prices they seem to be going > at these days. > > I've been tempted to go to the local SAAB stealer anyway and test-drive > a 9-2 turbo just for grins. I think the AWD would be kind of fun to > play around with and a boxer engine seems attractive to me, even if it > is a Subaru. It appears you can pick one of those up for a very short song. > > -Fred W Fred, Also you won't be able to pick up any more 9-2x's after the end of next year. It 2004, 2005 with 9-2x Linear and Aero models, and then in 2006 will just be a Linear model then that's history, no more. You should have seen the Saab Performance Team driving the 4 red 9-3SS's in Sweden at the 2005 Saab Festival! Amazing the stunts they could pull there with those! SaabGuy

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