Date: 24 Mar 2006 22:52:01 GMT From: Dave Hinz <DaveHinznospamcop.net> Subject: Re: Well, the convertible is on Ebay now.
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 22:00:53 GMT, Paul Halliday <pjghnospamyonder.co.uk> wrote: > in article 48j6fcFk2krlU1nospamvidual.net, Dave Hinz at DaveHinznospamcop.net > wrote on 24/03/2006 21:26: > >> Right to keep and bear arms. > > Good Lord! > Your right to bear arms is born out of the need to prevent the King of > England charging across your lawn and taking over your 12+ hectares of land > in the name of the crown ... Or so The Simpsons taught us :) Generally, it's unwise to take historical and/or legal advice from the Simpsons. >> Honest citizens are allowed to have guns, >> which keeps criminals in fear and doubt, to an extent. That citizen >> doesn't need to have a gun, themselves, just that the guy thinking about >> breaking in the house knows that they legally can, and might. > I'm very much in two minds about this one. It is certainly not in our > culture to shoot people and/or to defend ourselves with weapons. Well, the thing is, if someone is threatening me or my family, it does society more good if the non-criminal survives that attack. > I can see > it coming, but that is as a result of outside influences. I think there was > some mention about our Police not being armed earlier in this discussion. > Well, our Police are quite often armed, especially in metropolitan areas. > Maybe not the Police on the "beat" (walking the street), but the cars that > buzz up and down the inner cities are certainly armed. I think that this just validates the theory that an armed good person, improves society as a whole, while an armed bad person, detracts from it. It's not the hardware that's good or bad, after all, it's how it's used. > We had a Policewoman shot in Bradford in the not too distant past (I was > having a late curry lunch just over the road, 50 yards away, just a quarter > of an hour beforehand) and that started the debate again about whether our > Police should carry guns. I'm not in favour. If our Police routinely arm > themselves, our criminals will and we have little experience of that so it's > bound to end in tragedy every time. I think armed backup is the way to go. I won't pretend to understand your criminal:police dynamics so I'll defer on this one. >> About the >> same thing with government abuses; I'm of the theory that civilians >> owning guns is a good reminder to our government how the country was >> founded, and by what mechanism that was reached. > Indeed ... See above. The US is a much newer nation than the UK and our > nation was born out of conquering and submission of the clans by various > invading forces; Angles, Saxons and Jutes, for starters. While modern day > Welsh is the closest to our original Brythonic tongue, I think perhaps the > Cornish are the last outpost of that civilisation. Mmmmm, pasties... >>> Well, we had that in 1979 when our government (Labour, kind of Democrat >>> people) had made such a fuck up that we turned around and unanimously voted >>> them out. Well, if I had known what Margaret Thatcher was about to get up to >>> I would not have bothered being born! >> >> You had a say in the process? My, things _do_ work differently over >> there. And now you've got me wondering how old you are? > > Democracy does work; it's just the choices are always the same :( I meant the "I would not have bothered being born!" part of your statement ;) > BTW, I'm old enough to remember that bitch, young enough to remember "Maggie > Thatcher, Milk Snatcher!". You're going to make me go consult wikipedia, aren't you. Bastard; there goes the next two hours. I blame you. >> For the record, I find your party names and labels "liberal" and >> "conservative" to be very confusing as to how they're applied. > Well, the Tories are born out of the old Whigs and the Liberals are the old > Conservatives!? The Labour Party was founded in Bradford (yes, Bradford, my > home town) and, as Tony Benn said on Question Time last night, they're a > Socialist Party in that they have some Socialists like the church has some > Christians :) We get confused, too, since they change their spots so > frequently! I find myself quite admiring Boris Johnson and lamenting about > why Michael Portillo did not go for the Tory leadership :O It's like words, but, you know how on the Charlie Brown movies, when any adult is talking, you just get that "wah-wa-wa-wa-wa-waaaa" type noise? That's now that reads. Just no context I guess. >> Does the phrase "feelgood legislation" translate? >> Lovely place, the old city of York. I suppose that you, living near >> there, never go there? Isn't that usually the way it works? Or you >> only go there when showing visitors around? > We go there quite frequently, actually. I really like York ... and > Knaresbrough and Harrogate. York is like Leeds, without the pretention :) > When we were in Sweden, we were chatting to the girls on reception at the > hotel in Trollhättan about where we were from and one of the said about York > and the Ivanhoe mythos ... Well, we had no idea what she was talking about, > but she was right. We think of York as Wars of the Roses era, rather than > Medieval. I enjoyed it so much I went there twice in the 3 months I was staying in St. Albans (Herts). Only place I went to more was London, but that's only to be expected. So I think it's the T-fitting on the vacuum line going to the turbo gage. Or something. Dave
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