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Hello everyone,
THIS THREAD IS FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN TUNING THEIR OWN SAABS WITH LAPTOPS... IT'S LONG!
I couldn't shorten it up any, i wanted to be as thorough as possible... so to those who just want to know what to buy, scroll down and look for links... and skip my explanations if you already understand tuning concepts... ;)
Here's how I found i found out about all this stuff...
I haven't been around for a while, because I sold my 88 9000t early carlson. (see photo below) Well, parted it out to be exact. I sold a lot of my high performance parts to my best friend and we've already put them on his 92 9kt. So... I am still "in the game" but just not for myself anymore.
I have switched to a 2001 Toyota 4runner 4x4 (see link for photos) and have put the TRD supercharger kit on it, as well as added a 7th fuel injector... among many many other mods. (transmission valve body upgrade to handle the power, suspension upgrades including bigger sway bars, intake, hi flow cat and cat back exhaust, smaller pully for approx 9 psi, wideband o2 and datalogging system, and two user programmable tuning computers which interface with the stock ecu)
I suspect I'm not quite at 300hp at the crank yet... but close :) There is no lag at all with a supercharger, i'm at full 9psi at 2000 rpm if it's floored... all the way to redline! 3.4 liter V6, it pulls pretty darn good, almost as much as my saab sometimes! ;) It's definitely faster than an suv needs to be ;)
I needed a bigger vehicle and the ability to tow... but i didn't want to lose the FUN factor my saab had. So, i bough a supercharger, put it on, and started up this project just like i had with my saab. There is a lot you can do to one of these, surprisingly...
As you can imagine... this was a Naturally Aspirated engine from the factory, and just throwing a supercharger on it with high flow intake, exhaust, and a higher psi pulley... well.. it was like making a very expensive BOMB.
TRD said specifically NOT to use an aftermarket intake or even FILTER because it could cause the engines to run lean. let alone, add an exhaust, or higher psi pulley... there were many unhappy people from the supercharger kit because of how much it pinged their engine, and how lean it ran... a $3,000 ticking time bomb upgrade.
A lot of work into keeping said bomb from exploding, and actually getting POWER from it... was done by a man named Steve "Gadget" Dopler... who is an expert in the "art" of tuning toyotas running boost.
He started his own company after many years of trial and error tuning his own 5vz-fe toyota engine and started selling his secrets to the public. Underdog Racing Development (urd)
He did not come up with the idea for a 7th fuel injector kit, as TRD made one at some point for the supercharger kits, HOWEVER, he perfected his own 7th injector kit and wrote extensively on how to tune the kit to suit your vehicles needs.
The kit he sells allows you to alter the vehicles timing, when and how much the injector fires, and also can "fool" the ecu in closed loop mode and let you run additional fuel without the ecu trimming it out.
As you can guess a 2001 4runner is OBD2, and it also has a toyota wideband o2 for the ecu, so being able to fool it in closed loop to run more fuel is amazing... (It does this by changing the signal on the sensor wire somehow... i tapped into the wideband signal wire right by the ecu and at a few psi, it drops the air fuel ratio from 14.7 to 13.5 in closed loop, without a check engine light!, once you get to open loop you can get to 12:1)
Anyways...
The computer with the 7th injector kit is tunable by serial port in your car, and is extremely easy to use...
Now why am i telling you guys on saabnet all of this?
Because sitting in my driveway, tuning my 4runner, and looking at the space where my saab USED to be... i'm thinking to myself, MAN i wish i had this stuff when i had my saab!
IT WOULD HOOK RIGHT UP, well, some of it anyways ;)
The thing is, a lot of the equipment he uses isn't specifically made for toyota...
It's made by a company called "SPLIT SECOND" here is their link:
http://www.splitsec.com/index.html
Now the products that can be taken advantage of that they make are...
the PSC-001 (programmable signal calibrator, or MAF sensor calibrator)
http://www.splitsec.com/products/psc1/PSC1001.htm
YOU CAN BUY IT HERE FOR UNDER $250.
http://www.urdusa.com/product_info.php?cPath=66_72&products_id=1260198051
This is where i got mine, this unit IS the split second unit, no changes were made to it for toyotas (make sure to add the boosted option on the bottom or it won't come with the internal map sensor which you need if you're turbo'd)
IF you order it from them, just tell them you have a 2001 4runner 4wd. It will come shipped with a blank map... which you will have to program when you first install it, but its easy.
It has a built in MAP sensor, and only 5 wires to attach. You can see the PDF form on the website which explains different wiring options, but for saab purposes...
Switched Power from ignition, ground, RPM input, and then two wires for the MAF... one coming from the original MAF wire, the other goes to the ECU MAF input... (you also hook it up to vacuum/boost lines for the internal map sensor)
Once it's in the car, and hooked up you turn your key to "on" and then write the data to the computer... it won't let you write data while the car is running, it knows there is a tach signal obviously, but the map comes with all ZEROS, you have to start with all TENS, which is a neutral value, neither leaning or richening the mixture... more on this in a minute...
Think of it like this...
The stock saab MAF sends a 0v to 5v signal to the ECU to tell the ecu how much air it's getting... then the ECU compensates with fuel.
Well, this computer sits IN BETWEEN the MAF sensor and the ECU, and you program this computer to ALTER the MAF signal to whatever you want it to be... based on RPM and on PSI from it's internal MAP sensor
So you have to cut the stock saab MAF signal wire going to the ECU, route it into this computer, then attach the modified output signal from the computer to the wire that goes to the ECU,
AND YOU'RE DONE!
Now... what can you do with this?
well...
First of all you can tune your car to run with whatever injectors / turbo / intake / exhaust / system you want to... and NOT have to rely on a chip tuner to tune the car... just your trusty windows XP junker laptop (not sure if the software works in vista or 7)
Second of all once you get the idea of how to use this equipment down, you can fine tune your car with a laptop... even the older ones all the way back to 85 or earlier ;)
I HIGHLY suggest anyone who has read this far... read this write up on how to tune with this equipment. This is written by GADGET himself, and while some of it isn't relevant for your saab, focus on the software operations... it's the same for all of split seconds tunable computers...
http://www.gadgetonline.com/U-Tune.pdf
As you can see, there is a "spreadsheet" of cells, with values in them... based on RPM and PSI...
there are TWO maps , map A and MAP B...
on an advanced computer like the one in my toyota, MAP A controls the timing retard... and map B controls the 7th fuel injector...
If you bought the MAF SENSOR CALIBRATOR, map A would be the MAF voltage adjustment.
In a nutshell, a value of 10 in the cell means "no adjustment" to the signal of the maf.
If you go with a higher value, you richen up the mixture.
a lower value... you lean it out...
and you can tune each cell differently from all PSI's in 0.5 psi increments and all RPM's in 500 rpm increments! It's VERY accurate! The internal map sensor is top notch!
So, you're still asking me, WHAT DOES THIS DO FOR ME?
Well, let's say you have custom upgraded all of your equipment.
Bigger turbo, custom intercooler, huge injectors, and let's say you had a chip tune, or you're using some generic high performance chip that was used on a test car without all your same specs...
and let's say that at 2-3krpms under high boost you run rich as all heck, but at 5-6krpms you're leaning out...
well... enter the MAF sensor calibrator.
You go into the program, select the cells you need to adjust, change their values, then write it to the ECU... then drive and check the results.
IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING THAT YOU NEED A WIDEBAND OXYGEN SENSOR TO KNOW WHAT THE RESULTS ARE...
While i'm at this subject...
you shouldn't even be driving your modified saabs without a wideband...
I had a bung custom welded into my exhaust for less than $50 at an exhaust shop.
The wideband systems have come down in price and are under $200 now...
THERE IS NO EXCUSE if you don't have one...
Here are the links to what you need if you don't already have one...
Innovative wideband in Blue LED $177
http://www.urdusa.com/product_info.php?cPath=66_77_20&products_id=1260518542
Same but in RED
http://www.urdusa.com/product_info.php?cPath=66_77_20&products_id=1260518598
Then you need a BUNG
ADANCE AUTO PARTS - Part No. 88103 - weld on Bung = $12
OR if you want to go with a TOP NOTCH wideband and datalogging system, you can get the
ZEITRONIX system, which is what I personally own...
You can add EGT, and boost and rpm signals and log them all... it's great.
They also Sell Stainless BUNGS if you want to order one, down at the bottom of the page
http://www.zeitronix.com/order/order.htm
THE ONLY THING ABOUT PUTTING IN A WIDEBAND IS: LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION!
IT CANNOT GO ANYWHERE NEAR THE TURBO, THE HIGH HEAT WOULD KILL IT.
IT MUST GO APPROX 16 INCHES DOWNSTREAM AWAY FROM THE TURBO. CAN BE A LITTLE CLOSER BUT NO WHERE NEAR THE STOCK o2 SENSOR!!
IT MUST ALSO BE BETWEEN 10 AND 2 O'CLOCK ON THE TOP OF THE PIPE, OR ELSE CONDENSATION WILL RUIN IT WHEN IT IS COLD, IT CANNOT BE ON THE SIDES OR BOTTOM.
For me, this was easy on my 9000, i ended up putting it at about 11 oclock just before the oil pan under the car... it was easy to get at... although i took the pipe off to have it welded... i easily marked the spot where it would go. Make sure to compensate for the wire harness that will come out of the top of the sensor, leave room for that..
SO...
Let's add up all these product costs shall we?
about $250 for the URD MAF CALIBRATOR
about $180 for the Innovative Wideband
About $15 for the weld on O2 bung
and maybe $50 to get it welded on...
THAT'S $495 LADIES AND GENTLEMAN!
About the cost of ONE chip tune from some tuners i know... but you can tune it yourself, forever.
You can use this stuff in other cars as well!
Any car you own with a 0-5v MAF!
What's the catch?
No catch...
You just need time and patience...
Once installed, drive car... note wideband / boost / rpm data..
then stop, look at those data cells on the laptop, adjust them, and write back to the MAF computer...
then start driving again, take notes on the changes... stop, and retune the map as needed...
JUST READ DATA, RE-TUNE, and REPEAT... over and over...
and you will eventually get your car running as smooth as possible... with the most power.
READ THE UTUNE GUIDE IF YOU ARE INTERESTED:
http://www.gadgetonline.com/U-Tune.pdf
But understand how your saab engines differ from the toyota engines or the other computers he is using to tune with
1. most of them won't be OBD2, or even OBD1... so the "scan tool" and the "fuel trim" that he talks about are irrelevant. Even if you are OBD2, and decide to purchase the SCAN TOOL, there MAY be better options for you for tuning later model saabs... however... this is still an option you can add onto what you already have... if say, perhaps, you still have a few bugs to iron out. For the cost it's worth a try. For an OBD2 saab the fuel trim concept would be the same as in the manual though, all OBD2 uses fuel trimming.
2. the talk about knock sensor / timing / etc... that's irrelevant to our cars. the toyota engines he is tuning have 2 knock sensors, one for each bank of 3 cylinders. They only sense knock ABOVE 3,000 rpm and adjust the timing in the upper rpm range. The timing changes are then somehow calculated in the lower rpm range based on the upper range adjustments it makes, however, the knock sensors are inactive below 3krpm. they never intended the engine to be boosted. But we get a lot of low rpm, high load spark knock under boost unless we retard our timing... you won't be dealing with the timing so, it doesn't matter, skip over these parts. The computer he has developed intercepts and adjusts the toyota cam and crank sensor signals, however i don't think it works with any stock saab timing signals, so forget it... unless you read up on splitsec.com and REEEAALLYY dive into the types of signals they can deal with... i don't think we need it. The older hall effect saabs can just use the AIC to deal with timing... and the newer ones just trust the knock sensor / DI system to retard timing under boost.
3. MOST of the toyotas he is tuning have very accurate ECU's which keep the air fuel ratio PERFECTLY at 14.7 : 1 in closed loop. NO MATTER WHAT. When i turn my 7th injector on at full blast at part throttle in closed loop, it does NOTHING to the Air fuel ratio... because the ECU sees the extra fuel from the o2 sensor, and pulls out fuel from the other 6 injectors. There is VERY little you can do in a toyota to adjust the air fuel ratio in closed loop without causing a check engine light to come on...
however... the older saabs... i think you're all in luck.
I used to run 12.0 : 1 on my wideband AT IDLE... it was so rich it smelled like a dead skunk, it was horrible. I had no check engine light though, it was just from my larger injectors and 3 bar regulator. But the ECU couldn't pull out enough fuel to compensate... based on the maps it had programmed it it, it thought it was correct, but it only had "so much" of a range to pull fuel out.. so thus... rich at idle.
Now, if i had this URD computer adjusting the MAF signal, i could pull out all that fuel IN CLOSED LOOP and the ecu wouldn't mind! I would be helping it do it's job... I could have gotten it to 14.7 or as close as possible... and it would have been GREAT!
Leaning it out at idle would be the IDEAL use for this for someone who has huge injectors and a huge FPR and needs a leaner idle... unless you spent the money on a custom chip tune already.
So the CLOSED LOOP tuning capabilities of this setup on a saab, are huge. Open loop would allow you to run a perfect 12.0 : 1 ratio at all RPMS and at Full OR partial boost... you wouldn't have to worry about say, cruise control on the highway only giving partial boost on acceleration and being a little lean, as my car sometimes did
You would just look at the wideband and at your boost gauge see how you're doing for a/f ratio at different PSI's and different RPMS... then make a change to the MAF computer accordingly...
then go back out and drive it again!
4. Older saabs that are non OBD2 won't have fuel trims as far as i know... it's a single map and the ecu sticks to it... there is no learning capabilities... but this is good. what you see is what you get with the changes you make to the maf computer... and you don't have to compensate for the toyota ecu learning your changes...
Now, they make O2 sensor calibrators for fooling the ecu in closed loop as well, called the ESC-1 or the EGO box...
http://www.splitsec.com/products/Enricher.htm
http://www.urdusa.com/product_info.php?cPath=66_72&products_id=1120100003
This would be ideal for someone who is having problems tuning in closed loop, but i have no experience with it, i just know it exists and is as high quality as the rest of this stuff.
I haven't got it hooked up to my friends 92, but i will, mark my words ;)
I am just so excited to share this with everyone.
I wish i had this stuff when i had my saab.
Long gone are the days of trying to lean out idle with an RRFPR...
Long gone are the days of trying to use Resistors on your MAF to adjust the signal to the ecu
Long gone are the days of waiting and hoping someone would just invent a tunable ecu for the older saabs...
here is is people, this is the answer...
you don't have to take my word for it...
but I'm doing all this to my friends 92. (t3/t4 hybrid turbo, 34# injectors, jak stoll intercooler, SQR ECU and APC chips, 3" catback, intake, cams...)
I'll be the guinea pig as far as saabs are concerned, however, I have already been using this hardware / software on my 4runner for many months now, and I am a believer.
Feel free to ask any questions on this thread, i have it set on auto alert.
-gavin
My new TOYota, ALMOST as fun as a saab ;)
, Tue, 16 Nov 2010 12:03:16
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