Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 11:01:31 +0100 From: Johannes H Andersen <johsnopsamsafish.com> Subject: Re: Engine noise 9.5 engines
Spuds Velvet wrote: > > In article <JsiI6.8263$sk3.2295626nopsamb.telia.net>, > karin.altahr-cederbergnopsama.com says... > > My my my..... Is this bullshit or what! I turn out 300 hp from my 95 > > stationwagon and it givs specs close to those of BMW M5 and even beats the > > M5 in some areas. Talking about value for money!! You guys are pathetic when > > You talk about some Saturn crappy american car that's supposed to be the > > same as a Saab. Are americans ignorant or what? > > -) You can rebuild almost anything to make it perform. > > -) I doubt that your car would be legal to drive on the > street in the US. I'd like to drive it, and I salute > you -- but a 300 HP Saab is a rare beast here. > > -) Saturn isn't a luxury car. That is exactly my point. > GM must put engines into Saturns that are cheap to > manufacture. If GM puts the same engine into a Saab > that they put into a Saturn; then we have some fair > questions to ask them about that engine. > > -) ... and the Saturn LS Wagon does indeed > compare well against the Saab -- the Saab is better, but > the Saturn could be "rebuilt" (see my first point, above). > Both wagons use the Opel platform. The wagons share the > same interior and exterior dimensions. Part count and > build quality are comparable, with the Saab showing an > edge, but not a whole lot. > > -) I don't know what GM does in Europe; but here in the US, GM > is infamous for taking cheap assemblies and putting them > into premium cars. Putting a cheap Opel engine into an > expensive Saab is EXACTLY the kind of krap that US Saab > owners are leery of. > > Any American posting to this group could name a half-dozen > domestic examples of GM marketing expensive cars that > incorporate cheap light-duty assemblies from their economy > cars. We extend our collective sympathy to our friends > in Europe. > > x) Chev V8s used in Buicks. > x) Midsize Cadillacs built on the old Chev Nova platform. > x) Opel light-duty manual transmissions used in midsize Chevs. > x) Cadillac Escalade is really a GMC Yukon for $xxxx more. > x) Olds Bravada based on the Chev equivalent for $xxxx more. > > I'd like to read a detailed engineering overview and analysis > of the Saab/Opel V6. What kind of service was this engine > designed to perform -- can it be used in light trucks? Was it > designed to be used in racing vehicles? Is Saab > 'remanufacturing' the V6 blocks to improve them, the way they > have in the past with the Ford V4 and the triumph L4? Did Saab > prepare that Opel engine to handle high revs and turbocharging, > or did they just drop it into a 9-5 body? I'd like Saab to > provide a candid and *detailed* explanation of what they did to > that engine to make it worthy of putting into a Saab. > > SVelvet These days, all you get is the advertising blabber that "Saab like the driver to be in control of all the forces...." with subtle references to their fighter aircraft engineering. This is supposed to answer all your questions. Here in the UK, the motoring journos have a lot to answer for, they have no mechanical knowledge whatsoever and focus exclusively on the cars status+image. BMW is the holy grail for them no matter what. They test cars by doing some tire burning spins and complain if the engine doesn't scream. Some years ago I read comparative tests in a German car magazine, I found it much more systematic and better informed about the differences in engineering. This critical audience may have played part in the general excellence of many German makes, but even so their motoring journos have some realistic sense of proportion, while here in the UK, the German makes are regarded with awe. Johannes
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