Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 02:57:21 GMT
From: Nutmegger<>
Subject: Re: Winter vs all season tires on 900SE???

Robert Brown says... >> >> 2) The reduced grip of studded snow tyres on clear asphalt surfaces >> >(compared with using them on snow). >> >> I don't understand this reduced grip thing about studded snow tires, I've never >> noticed it in my driving. > >This has been dealt with in a few tests reported in local motor magazines. Much has been >written surrounding the debate on whether to use studded or studless winter tyres. On >bare asphalt (i.e. no frost, snow, or ice), studded tyres are said to give longer >stopping distances than studless tyres, regardless of temperature. Should be noted that >the stone mix used in our tarmac is much coarser than in many other countries. This is to >improve the wear qualities of the road, but at the cost of grip. > >Studless winter tyres have nice soft flexible rubber (at least if they're less than 6-8 >years old) that grip better on bare surfaces and designed to remain pliable down to many >degrees below zero Celsius. > >Studded tyres are of course excellent on ice, but studless tyres are not too bad if >you're careful. Around here the roads are very good, smooth and the stuff gets packed down, mushy then freezes back up again if it isn't cleaned up. The studded tires cut right through it all, down to pavement and I have not noticed any difference stopping - although when the conditions are like that I'm driving pretty slow. I like how the car handles with them, it is like a tank - goes through anything. > >The good thing about winter tyres is that, even if grip may in some cases be slightly >worse than with summer tyres, there won't be any real nasty surprises if you hit a patch >of ice or snow. It's a bit like paying premiums for any kind of insurance - it's just a >cost, until something unexpected happens. Well, it is no big deal to me, I let the weather dicate what to do with my tires, just like which coat I'll wear. >> What about all season radials in the summer during a rainstorm, right in the >> beginning when the oil on the road makes it very slippery? >> Many drivers never understand that. > >Quite right. I saw it today as a matter of fact. > >> >> > >> >Many drivers up here do as follows: >> >> >Where there is a fair bit of driving on cleared roads, as well as snow/ice), >> >studless winter tyres (much softer compound) ar often used. What's good about >> >studless winter tyres is that they perform very well on clear roads, though the >> >tyres wear a bit. The handling is of course sloppy as hell but it's exactly that >> >characteristic that ensures that grip is broken less easily. >> >> I could not stand the way my Saab handled with those tires. Not only that, when >> it rained I hydroplaned all over the place because they were too soft. > >Yeah, it's a weird feeling, feels like the back suspension has come unhooked. No, that isn't what I meant. When that happens the FWD pulls me along just fine - it is when the front tires are not grabbing the road right - then there is a problem. > >Surprised that you say you hydroplane on winter tyres. Most winter tyres channel water >away from the contact patch very well. If I were to make it my business of driving >through big puddles all the time, I'd rather do in on winter tyres. I don't know? All I know is I did, and I know tires after all I've been through. >they reckon that your average Sven isn't so good at parrying if the back end steps out >when he has studs on the front, no studs on the back .. . Losing grip at the back under >braking can also cause you to swap ends - not nice. OK, rally drivers have been known to >set brake bias towards the back, but that's especially to cause the back to swing 'round. >Not so good for your everyday driver . . . I like it, I mean I don't go around doing it in purpose or anything but when it happens, I can handle it fine because I'm usually going the speed limit or slower. >> are in Sweden? So they passed legislation about snow tires, how is it >> enforced? > >The police can fine you if they - during the period 1 december to 31 march - catch you >using summer tyres when there is frost, ice, or snow on the roads. My guess is that using >summer tyres in such conditions will also affect the possibilities of claiming on >insurance, in the event of an accident, and will render you more liable to pay damages if >someone else gets hurt. Interesting, I don't believe we have fines for that here, but we do have fines for using studded tires in the spring and summer months. > >Maybe someone good at Swedish traffic legislation - who is reading this - can fill in >here. > >Even if there's no ice or snow, but it's simply cold, most people opt for winter studless >tyres because of the different rubber compound. Summer tyres harden below +5 deg C which >reduces grip. > >A useful web page (in Swedish) is Search on "vinterd”ck". Is it in English? Sorry, but I can't read Swedish. > >> >> How do you like your Audi? > >I like it very much. You are the 4th person who has one that I've talked to and has said the same. >Very interesting trade-offs though. I have the Avant (combi) whose >baggage space is less than the Saab 9-3. Back seat legroom is worse. They do look like they are on a smaller wheel base. Engine is less >powerful - I have the 1,8 Ts which gives 180 hp / 235 Nm, as compared with my wife's 1999 >9-3 whose engine has 200 hp / 283 Nm. What's 20hp? > >But . . . the A4's handling is very solid (it is as the 9-3 might have been if the Saab >chassis had been built stiffer) I like it like that, the S70 felt floaty when I drove it. and the build quality is much better (I think the 9-3 and >9-5 have suffered due to GM-initiated cost-cutting measures). I don't like the plasticky >interior feel of the 9-3, but OTOH I find the Saab engine to be much more fun. I've got to see a new 9-3 interior, I've heard people complain about that before. > >My shortlist was the 9-3 Aero (not dramatically better than the regular 9-3), the 9-5 >Aero (very nice solid chassis but car was too expensive), the Peugeot 406 combi (good >cheap alternative with heaps of payload space), the BMW 330i (not so performant when >considering the purchase price), and of course the Audi. > >I would have chosen the 9-3 if we hadn't had one already ;-) Peugeot? I haven't seen one around for years here. ~J~

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