Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 14:06:54 -0300 From: Dexter J <lamealameadingdongnospamlamelame.org> Subject: Re: OT- Heads Up - Sasser plug
Salutations: On 6 May 2004 14:35:27 GMT, Dave Hinz <davehinznospamcop.net> wrote: > On Thu, 06 May 2004 01:24:48 -0300, Dexter J > <lamealameadingdongnospamlamelame.org> wrote: > >> In the unix universe there is no true central authority governing >> internode OS, processor or services security access. > > I'm not sure what you mean - processes, files, and devices have > ownership, the important stuff is owned by root and unless root allows > other users or processes access, they just plain can't do anything there. As compared to an MVS installation where you effectively network across processor cards and resources in a single room or closed rack loop - rather than a fiber network. Effectively every MVS session boots it's own complete and limited OS within the session bubble. Everything that makes that happen - the equivalent juicy stuff at Unix root (see below) - is mostly be done in the hollow floor room and in video taped person. >> (...Microsoft) >> It's cheap desktop *AND* network processing for the price, no matter >> where >> in the world you are - the bath room is always on the side near the >> door, >> the food is usually identically bland and staff is bargoon until they >> set >> the service manual alight in the fryer from the boredom. > > ...and the key is invariably under the doormat, another in the mailbox, > and the doors that you didn't know you had are left wide open. > >> Anyway this compromise has it's own upsides and downsides as befits the >> compromise. But thusly, it is often treated as 'cheap' by managers and >> owners who have been repeatedly assured that they don't have to pay real >> experienced System Admins to configure and maintain their systems. >> Mostly >> - 'everybody knows how to use Word' - particularly in the executive >> wing. > > Which is particularly frustrating when techies try to point out "yes, > everyone knows how to use Word's 10% of features they use. Those same > 10% of features work exactly the same way in, say, OpenOffice on a > Linux box, with zero retraining for even the most non-technical user". > A few years ago, this was a non-starter of a discussion, today it's > getting much easier. We've found that a Linux desktop, even (and > especially) for non-technical people, is easier for them to use mainly > because they can't screw things up. We give them a Citrix session off > to the terminal server so they can have a Windows window on their screen > if they want, but for displays, server mounts, and browsing, there's > no reason to leave the Linux desktop. > >> Breaking into a Unix workstation the right way will allow you to read >> stuff you shouldn't and do damage to whatever extent the victim has >> rights >> on it's grid and however creatively the grid is administered and >> created. > > Well, sure, if you become root on a Unix box you can do everything. I > guess the distinction is that that's the exception, rather than for > instance > Windows XP which creates the first user as admin (ok, makes sense), but > also any _additional_ users default to full admin ("root") rights. > >> The same may be said of MAC-OS/Redhat one day - to the extent system >> administrators/home owners/teenagers really open the gates on the stack >> - >> for mostly the same reason. > > Not really, MacOS and Redhat are Unix systems, so the profound > architectural differences still come into play. Currently agreed - but as inexperienced administrators/home users/newbies in a hurry to move over from Windows - it will effectively open the OS's up exploit based on the popular knowledge base. The more popular a given OS becomes - and given most folks move to Unix to network resources effectively and securely - eventually the more now secured OS configurations will become similar enough to automate effective remote attack. But - I completely agree - it may always be better than stock MicroSoft as some levels though given that you can better secure root - if you bother to make the time to know how and if Redmond doesn't actually fix it. >> My workstation server has sailed through all the plagues including Code >> Red. I've run my W2K workstation as a permanent IP on the public >> Internet >> without resorting to a firewall for almost four years now. > > Based on my personal experience, you're the exception rather than the > rule. I think that systems which aren't administered properly (yes, it's > a home PC, but people should but don't take responsibility) are the > biggest problem. The architecture makes it possible, but most of these > worms happen _after_ the patches have been out for a while. See my most recent thread post to brother bob on the subject of getting what you pay for. >> It hasn't fallen over dead yet - though some of my brother SAAB >> flagellants have no doubt done so by now. Quick - someone poke Grunff >> before he drowns snoring in the soup touraine!.. :) .. > > I think he dozed off a few posts ago. Good lord - I hope he's OK - now brother Grunff knows actaully useful stuff. We had better snuff this thread out before we lose any of the other important regulars.. :) .. >> Anyway - I have made a point of investing the time to really understand >> exactly what W2K was doing on the network and what the network was >> trying >> to do to it - and then revised and/or replaced things that made me >> nervous >> before they became a problem - and it all works just great actually. It >> lets me know if something isn't right long before it blue screens so I >> can >> check around to see what happening and fix it. > > Yup, you're definately not a typical Windows person. You'd do well > on the unix side, my friend... Well that's because I'm not really a 'windows person' per say - I started out on punch cards back when and have been learning on my own as things came up ever since. This of course means I'm completely 'overqualified but uncertified' according to my last three interviews. The joke's is on them though, the last one (HRM - City of Halifax) saw Sasser and MyDoom go through them like grain through a duck. Shut the entire municipal (and much of the provincial) network down for the day(s). Somewhat less embarrassing than having the provincial HR resume database breached and circulated last year - but bloody typical of the level of HR management and systems talent hiring where I live. Consequently - I'm building a very interesting and quite new Flash Application for pennies on the dollar for an out of province consultancy. Very rum stuff - works as a complete standalone and can encrypt/share data with pretty much anything you are willing to give a data key to. Natively dumps wipes the arrays from memory (virtual and otherwise) on exit. Depending, I think I may be able to get it to work standalone or on a network connection on anything from a PDA to a Mainframe - as long as it can be made to run on or communicate with Macromedia Flash 5. >> How's that for a rant!.. :) .. > > To much logic, not enough froth at the mouth. If you're going to > rant properly, you have to throw in some sort of "Oh, and Unix is > dead" or something. I mean, I haven't even been _tempted_ to bring > up the cliche' stuff about windows in response to your post. It's more > of a discussion than a rant, I'm afraid. > > You windows people are always like that, you know. > > Dave Well I'll try harder next time, but not really a windows zealot so much as a Systems Admin who still gives a crap about operating my node responsibly. Sounds stupid and trite these days I guess - it's not an important node to anyone else but the fans and myself I suppose - but I'm kinda proud of it anyway. On that note - I have to get back to work now. Cheers and best wishes brothers and sisters. -- J Dexter - webmaster - http://www.dexterdyne.org/ all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in - RealAudio 8+ Required - all the Time Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Mr Louis Jordan - Let The Good Times Roll http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/190.RAM
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