Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 23:23:15 -0400 From: ma_twain <ma_twainnospamo.com> Subject: Re: Any Saab employees here?
Tex wrote: > "ma_twain" <ma_twainnospamo.com> wrote in message > news:4253614F.9070000nospamo.com... > > >>Tex - I notice you did not use the words "reliable" and "durable" to >>describe the "two true Saab vehicles".I did not hesitate to buy a 12 year >>old Classic 900 turbo. I have not bought a 9-3 because of the reliability >>and repair cost issues. >> > > Who are you kidding? I don't care who made your car. Then you are exactly what GM management is looking for - someone who does not care about their car . . . A car older than 10 > years and with 100k+ miles on the odometer, will invariably have more repair > issues than any new car. Try again Tex. I bought a GM900, newer than my '93 900. It has had more electrical problems in the first 90 days than I have had in 16 yeas of driving Classic 900s. Your generalization might be valid for GM made cars, but not for the Classic 900s. The fact that most here happily fix their older > Saabs regularly, suggests that they need fixing regularly (not exactly a > good sign of quality). Our regular "fixin's" on our older Saabs includes things like preventative maintenance. Perhaps a little more detailed than you can perform on the newer GM Saabs, but that is by design. GM does not want you to maintain a part, they want you to replace the part (more profit). Eventually, GM does not want you to keep a car for 12 years, they want to you to buy/lease a new one every four years (more profit). Do you see a pattern here? This pattern is what drove car buyers to Toyota and Honda. We like our older Saabs because we CAN fix then, as opposed to being forced to buy a new car every 4 years. According to the JD Powers ratings, initial quality > marks for 1993 Saab 900 are actually similar to Saabs from 1997 and 2004. > That suggests that Saab quality hasn't really gone up nor has it gone down > (these marks are generally all relative to their contemporaries). > > >>The electronics have gotten too complex and too expensive to fix on your >>own. >> > > Agreed, but this could be said of virtually any car in its class today. > Funny thing is, 20 years ago, you would probably have heard the same exact > comment from older mechanics..."Arrrggh, the Saabs these days are too > complex to fix. I'll stick to my 96". And you speak to the mechanics who work on your car? I speak to the technicians at the shop where I buy my cars and get them serviced. Funny thing about building a relationship with a good technician, you will get honest answers. My point is that it's natural for > people to resist change, particularly as we get older. > > >>This makes the car very expensive to repair once the warranty expires. >>This is just one of the reasons Saabs don't retain their resale value. >> > > Unfortunately, Saabs historically have had poor resale value. While it > wasn't until more recent years that these kinds of figures began to be more > accurately tracked, it's been historically accepted that Saabs will lose > their value quicker than others in its class (namely Lexus, Infinity, > Mercedes et al). And that can be said even of Saabs pre-GM. > > The evidence suggests that there is more to quantifying resale value than > simply a vehicle's expected reliability over a given period. For example, > while Mercedes and BMW retain their value better than Saabs, their longterm > reliability is not significantly better than Saabs. This is more likely > related to the fact that Saabs serve a much smaller, less mainstream market > than Mercedes and BMW, making the resale market even smaller. All else > equal, decrease the demand and you decrease the market price. > > With certified pre-owned Saabs which carry a 100k mile warranty (at least in > the US), any reliability problems become manufacturer problems (within that > term). > > As far as the new 9-3's are concerned, the verdict is still out. Little in > the way of long term reliability information is available about the car > (having been introduced only in late 2002). Intitial quality data places it > above average, similar to BMWs. > > - tex > > >