Date: 29 Dec 2006 12:31:55 -0800
From: "jtpryan" <>
Subject: Re: Million Mile Saab 900 SPG

Fred W wrote: > jtpryan wrote: > > Fred W wrote: > > >>That kind of advertising goes a long way toward creating the "perception > >>of reliability" which is far more important than any reality. Toyotas > >>are not really any more long lived than SAABs, in fact the reverse is > >>probably true, but that isn't the public's perception. Just ask someone > >>not in tune with either brand... > > > > You have GOT to be kidding. > > No. Not kidding at all. See below > > >I have owned 4 Celicas and 1 Corolla. My > > wife is now on her second Saab. I drove all those Toyota's to between > > 150 - 200k, only getting rid of them out because I found something I > > wanted more at the time. I never had ANY problems with any of them > > other then wear items. The 2 Saabs have driven me nuts. Nothing > > really major (other then the turbo going at 30k, under warrenty thank > > God), just a lot of nudgy stupid crap, electric windows failing, > > e-brakes going, etc. > > Sorry, your limited analogous data is interesting, but hardly of > statistical significance. To counter your claims, I have owned 7 > different SAABs (including the 4 I still have) and *none* have ever > broken down and left me stranded. Have they required maintenance? Of > course, both preventive and some corrective. But they have always done > their jobs of getting me from here to there, hence they are reliable. > > I have owned exactly 1 (one) Toyota. It was a Celica GT 5 speed of > forgotten vintage (70 something). That car was a complete piece of > crappola. It was always broken, rusted, the interior was cheap and fell > apart... you get the idea. Oh, yes... I bought it used. I bought it > during the gas "crisis" to replace my perfectly good, low mileage Chevy > Nova because the chevy had a gas-hog V8. What a mistake. But even > though I had horrid reliability I would never say that Toyotas are > unreliable as I don't have enough data points one way or another. > > OK, so you've never had a breakdown (other than a blown turbo on a used > car with unknown service history) and you thing the reliability is poor > on SAABs? Perhaps the issue is what reliability even means? I would > suggest it means the vehicle can be relied upon to meet it's intended > design objective: to get you from point A to point B. > > Not to mention the incredible stupidity of > > putting the ignition between the seats so any liquid that spills goes > > into it like a drain. Lots of time sitting in the garage in winter > > with a hair dryer. I would love to meet the engineer that dreamed up > > that one. > > It is (purportedly) a safety design issue. Putting the key on the dash > exposes the driver's body parts to being impaled on said key in an > accident. Also, you really shouldn't be drinking (and thereby spilling) > stuff in your car anyway. It's not a safe practice as it leads to > distraction from the task at hand (driving, not consumption). Yeah, I > do it. I'm just careful not to spill. > > [sidebar] > So where did this notion come from that one needs to chow down whenever > traveling? Airlines, boats, cars... I don't understand the implied > connection. > [/sidebar] > > > The one that had the turbo go was her current one, a 9-3 > > convertible. We bought it used, but originally I think it went for > > close to 40k, right? And the turbo goes at 30k?? That is just wrong. > > I am a fanatic for maintenence, so it isn't like we mistreated it, and > > it only had 20k on it when we got it, so how bad could it have been > > mistreated before? > > In 20k miles I could make any car a piece of total crap. Just thrash it > from stone cold every day and don't change the oil or do any other > maintenance. Don't believe me? Buy me a new car and I'll show you. ;-) > > Then there is the top. That gave up the ghost last > > summer... again. This time out of warrenty, so we haven't even > > bothered getting it fixed, so now it's a hard top. > > Here, I have to agree, absolutely. SAAB rag-tops suck. period. I > wouldn't ever buy one (again). Did once. Drove the car about 2-3k > miles and sold it (for a tidy profit I might add). > > > > > I now own a Mini Cooper S with 125k on it. Bought it new loaded for > > 24k. Rides like it was new and has no problems, and that is a first > > year model! > > > > I *really* want to try a cooper, but I know I'll never buy one. Just > too non-pragmatic. ...and I already have three bitchin' motorcycles to > ride for those occasions when I'm in that mood. > > > Sorry to go on a rant, but I just couldn't pass on comparing Toyota > > reliability to Saab. They may be more boring then a Saab, but they are > > in a completely different league for reliability. One car going a > > million miles does not make an entire line "reliable". > > > Ummm... Well, one car no. But a (relatively) large number of those > cars? yes, yes it does. > > -- > -Fred W Well, if nothing else maybe we can get this thread back on track... I agree that mine, or your's, experience is just that, a personal experience. But I think we both know that Toyata has enjoyed, for many years, one of the highest, if not THE highest reliability and satisfaction ratings out there. I do not believe a car getting me from A to B is the goal anymore, nor should it be. It should take us there with everything working, especially with what cars cost these days. I have owned a few British cars, and in fact still own a 1963 Austin Healey 3000. I think we all know about British cars, or at least their reputation. But based on the criteria that it is reliable if it doesn't leave me on the side of the road, then my Healey is very reliable. However, I still seem to spend a lot to time working on it;+}. I still hate that damn key. The convertible at least has a cupholder, a really, really bad one, but a holder nonetheless. I agree, in a perfect world we would just drive, and eat in the kitchen. But we don't, we have coffee, or soda. Saab needs to come to terms with that and at least try to make it as safe as possible to do it. Plus, why worry about keys when there are weapons of mass destruction out there??? Take a Cooper S out for a drive, I guarantee you will fall in love with it. HUGE smile factor. -Jim

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