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Re: older 9000 turbo problems; Boston mechanic recommendations
Posted by David Prantl (more from David Prantl) on Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:05:36
In Reply to: older 9000 turbo problems; Boston mechanic recommendations, Brett Dikeman, Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:20:54
> Hey, relax. Just poking a little inter-marque fun, that's all :-)
No offense taken here. I don't think any car's perfect.
In the '86-'87 9000T (and '85 in Europe), pretty much all the relays were
crammed in the panel above the glovebox. No ABS was available.
The automatic started in '87. A pretty lame German ZF4HP18 unit, not quite
up to the task of transmitting SAAB turbo torque for very long (even the
188lb-ft from the early 2.0 16V turbo). The unit is very often replaced
under warranty in the neighborhood of 60k miles.
THANK GOD the current crop of SAABs get their auto trannies from
Aisin-Warner of Japan - the Toyota/Lexus supplier.
In '88 (USA), ABS became standard on the 9000, and a few other things
changed (new high-beam switch, LH2.4, etc.). The wiring harnesses got
fatter (more wires), and some relays and fuses migrated to a couple of new
boxes under the hood.
> ok, this is identical to how my 200 operates
> (1.4 barw/WGFV unplugged, 1.83 bar maximum.)
> This is an older Saab..I think it's around an '87 or so.
I am pretty sure that EVERY SAAB 16V turbo operates at base boost (or tries
to) when the wastegate control goes awry. That includes the earliest LH/APC
controlled cars as well as those equipped with the omniscient Trionic.
> Yep. Same here for the Audis(only the 200q20v and the S4/S6 have it.)
You'll find this very same valve on every SAAB 16V turbo (that would be '85
and up). Lots of other turbo cars, eg. Mitsu/Eagle products, get outfitted
with these valves by enthusiastic owners. It's really a no-brainer device,
but it's important to bridge the high-pressure side to a low-pressure side
point that's AFTER the AMM. The AMM doesn't want to count the same air
twice.
> Yhea...if they're like the Audi valves, they're $30.
I would not be surprised if Bosch sold the same exact part to both car
companies !
> On the Audis, these things need to be torques juuuuust right, or the
>sensor is seriously unhappy. Same for the Saabs? My 200 has two sensors
> (twice the trouble :)
I never had a knock-sensor problem myself. I wouldn't doubt that the torque
on it is tricky though. I believe it's located somewhere underneath the
intake manifold, which makes it a PAIN to get to. There's a temp sensor in
the same vicinity (blue connector), so don't confuse the two.
> What is the function of the APC soleniod?
APC solenoid is the SAAB version of your WGFV !
> There isn't a Bently available for the 9000? Hmm.
Unfortunately, not. However, as I said before, USA 2-liter 9000 models
(that's '86-'90) had the same exact engine covered in the Bentley 900 16V
book. USA '91 and newer 9000 owners (all with 2.3's) are pretty hosed.
The 9000 Haynes is even more ridiculous than your Haynes - sounds like. It
is a UK-published book, and is based on a '93 RHD car equipped with the B204
LPT engine (2.0-liter 16V balance-shaft-block with base-boost-only Trionic).
This engine was never offered in any US-bound 9000 model.
I remember when the Haynes 900 8-valve manual actually had some useful
creative DIY procedures, where the equivalent Bentley would just say
something like 'not adjustable', or 'repair is beyond the abilities of the
home mechanic', or 'these seventeen proprietary SAAB special tools are
absolutely necessary for this repair'.
> Thanks for all the help David!
Anytime I can goof off at work writing about SAABs is a good time...
Best regards,
David Prantl
International Paper Co.
Memphis, Tennessee.
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