The above is an advertisment. If it asks you to download software or create an account, please ignore it.
Site News - 11/25: Special Ad Rate | 11/1: Members: Log In to See Fewer Ads!
[General | Members | C900 | 9000 | NG900 & OG93 | 93 | 95 | NG95 | 99 | Sonett | Vintage Models | Clubs | Other Cars | FAQs | Gifts | Member Photo Galleries | Member Directory | Classifieds | Manuals | *Buddy Registry | *Mileage Registry | Polls | What's New | Raffle | Photo of the Month | Sponsors]

93 Bulletin Board
2003-2011 [Subscribe to Daily Digest]
(Search Author's Posts: e.g. Keyword:username)*Members Only

[Main 93 Bulletin Board | BBFAQ | Prev by Date | Next by Date | Post Followup ] Member Login / Signup - Members see fewer ads. - Latest Member Gallery Photos
alchohol had a need 25 years ago, now = politics (++)
Like This Post: - Subscribe to Daily Digest for this Bulletin Board
Posted by Dean (more from Dean) on Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:43:01 Share Post by Email
In Reply to: What is wrong with ethanol? nm, Mark, Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:05:38
Alert me when someone posts in this thread:
Members do not see ads below this line. - Help Keep This Site Online - Signup

It has close to around 1/2 the heat of combustion when burnt. Why? Why do they call such things oxygenates? Because they have oxygen in them. This is not free oxygen, but is like the oxygen in H2O or CO2. It has already reacted. So alchohols with their oxygen content are 'already half burnt fuel'. So with a 10% ethanol fuel you could easily see a 5 or 6% drop in MPGs. So the cost of the fuel at the pump is not $2.15, but really closer to $2.25 as you are using more fuel.

Alchohol in gasoline is stupid, but what else would you expect from a agri-lobby policital thing like this. The economics of alchohol in fuel sucks all the way through the chain to your wallet. And those in the middle get tax breaks... thats your money and mine. The idea was to make carburated engines run leaner and cleaner. But how many vehicles on the road have carbs these days?... almost zero. All modern vehicles with O2 sensors will automatically make the AF mixture richer to compensate for the alchohol and the whole premise for the oxy-fuels is thus negated!

There is no techical need for alchohols in gasoline other than amounts needed to prevent winter freeze-up of water condensed in the fuel tank. And some of the octane additives are also water dispersant by nature and perhaps some winter blend fuels would need zero added alchohol.

So what about alchohol as a renewable resource? Does the alcohol yield a net energy gain after the inputs of the engergy costs of production of the seeds, plowing the soil, seeding, cultivating, adding nitrogen fertilizer that is made from natural gas, energy intensive production of herbicides and/or insecticides, harvesting, hauling to the grain storage facilities, drying the grain for storage (using propane fuel), hauling grain from storage to alcohol plant, engergy cunsuption at alcohol plant, energy intensive distilation, trucking ethanol in tanker trucks to gasoline pipeline terminals where it is blended into gasoline???

Note how many steps involve the use of diesel fuel in tractors or trucks. If there is a positive gain, it is not large and some will not believe that there is a net gain. Enter politics again. Run the tractors and trucks on soya or rape seed based bio diesel and things would look greener, but more expensive yet.

posted by 66.139.1...
Posts in this Thread:
Alert me when someone posts in this thread:
Members do not see ads below this line. - Help Keep This Site Online - Signup
Post a Followup

No Site Registration is Required to Post - Site Membership is optional (Member Features List), but helps to keep the site online
for all Saabers. If the site helps you, please consider helping the site by becoming a member.

Name: Member Login / Signup - Members see fewer ads. - Latest Member Gallery Photos
E-Mail: (Optional)
Re-Enter E-Mail: (Confidential & Secure - Not revealed to other users!)
Note: Please check your spam folder for BB responses.

Subject:

Posting rules are simple - No for sale/wanted ads may be posted here - use the site classifieds.
You may not cross-post your message to multiple BBs.
Not permitted: political/religious topics and being disrespectful (personal attacks, insults, etc...).
 Site Members do not see any red text, inline ad links, bottom of page anchor ads, box ads, or anti-spam check.

Message: (please no for sale/wanted classifieds - post those in the Saabnet.com Classifieds)
Links are now automatically made active, no need for any special code (or use the Option Link field below) - don't put links in () or end with a '.'
To add inline images to your post, use [img]http://www.domain.com/img.jpg[endimg] (or use the Optional Image Link field below).

Links are now automatically made active, no need for any special code (or use the Option Link field below) - don't put links in () or end with a '.'
To add inline images to your post above, use [img]http://www.domain.com/img.jpg[endimg] (or use the Optional Image Link field below).
Optional Link: (e.g. http://www.saabnet.com/)
Link Title: (Optional)
Optional Photo/Image Link: (e.g. http://www.saabnet.com/img.jpg)
Photo/Image to Upload: (Please be patient while file uploads)



StateOfNine.com
SaabClub.com
Jak Stoll Performance
M Car Covers
Ad Available

The content on this site may not be republished without permission. Copyright © 1988-2026 - The Saab Network - saabnet.com.
For usage guidelines, see the Mission & Privacy Notice.
[Contact | Site Map | Saabnet.com on Facebook | Saabnet.com on Twitter | Shop Amazon via TSN | Site Donations]

Random Saabnet.com Member Gallery Photos (Click Image)
This is a moderated bulletin board - Posting is a privilege, not a right. Unsolicited commercial postings are not allowed (no spam). Please, no For Sale or Wanted postings, SERIOUSLY. Classifieds are to be listed in The Saab Network Classifieds pages. This is a problem solving forum for over 250,000 Saab owners, so expect to see problems discussed here even though our cars are generally very reliable. This is not an anything goes type of forum. Saabnet.com has been a moderated forum since 1988. For usage guidelines, see the Saabnet.com Mission and Purpose Page. Please remember that you are not anonymous. Site Contact | Site Donations | Other Sites by SP - Poverty2Prosperity.org | Run Club Menlo Park | ScreenBot


Site Members do not see red text instructions, bottom of the page anchor ads, or box ads.
Click here to see all the Site Membership Benefits!