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Re: Maintenance Costs 9-5
Posted by David Prantl (more from David Prantl) on Thu, 1 Nov 2001 18:23:20
In Reply to: Maintenance Costs 9-5, Tony & Barb Thompson, Tue, 30 Oct 2001 20:18:30 
>  Some of Erin Epps comments regarding SAAB service/labor  charges need 
>comment...  The implication that $30.00  is an exorbitant rate, much less 
>$50.00 or $60.00,
>  ought to be considered in light of the following.

Personally, I understood no such implication from the original post.  
Rather, it was said that $30 is a *very* fortunate find, and $50-$60 is 
typical.

Nothing to disagree with here, except to suggest that maybe $70-$80 is more 
typical.

>  A good tech. has extensive training and continues to update  this 
>training in order to get and maintain certification
>  either by ASE or a major manufacturer.

This applies only to a small fraction of the professional auto-service 
community, since the law does not require professional auto service 
technicians to have *any* formal training, education, or certification.  In 
fact, many auto service businesses have folks working on today's high-tech 
vehicles without even as much as a high-school diploma.

>  You trust your tech. not only with keeping your car  going from point A 
>to point B but also in doing so  safely.  You literally trust him or her 
>with your life.

That's a little over-dramatic.  If you can drive the car out of the lot, 
about the most dangerous thing that can result from a botched service visit 
afterwards is that the car will stop running at an inconvenient time and 
place.

>  Techs however see only a portion of the labor rate you pay.   Much of 
>this rate goes to the shop.  Most of this goes  to 'overhead'.  Shop costs 
>are very high.

This varies greatly according to the nature of the shop.  If it's a 
franchised dealership with dozens of new car sales per week and hundreds (if 
not thousands) of customers, your statement may apply.  If it's a small 
imdependent garage, then things can be substantially different.

>  As an example of some SAAB specific items:  Tech 2, the  computer 
>diagnostic tool, runs about $4000.00.

Last I checked, a Tech 2 setup ran more like $2500.  Regardless, all SAAB 
cars up to and including model-year 1989 do not have any scan-tool interface 
capability for diagnosis and repair.  90+% of all diagnosis and repair 
procedures on newer SAAB cars can also be accomplished without the use of a 
scan-tool.

>  It must be updated with new programs 2 or 3 times a
>  year at a cost of $300.00 or $400.00 each for an  independent shop.

Certainly not.  Just because updates may be available this frequently 
doesn't mean they must be purchased immediately.  More often than not an 
update has to do with the very latest system or component that has been 
introduced to the market in a brand new model.  These brand new models will 
be under factory warranty for several years, and only after that there could 
possibly be a need for the independent garage to purchase the scan-tool 
software update.

>  CD parts catalogues also run $600.00 and also require  regular updates.

A parts catalogue is not necessary for effective SAAB service.  Independent 
garages that order their parts through a franchised dealer do not have to 
use valid SAAB part numbers when ordering, just like DIY customers.

>  General online information from services such as  AllData charge the shop 
>a monthly fee for updated  information as do online parts catalogues.

Neither of these are required to run a SAAB repair business.  Besides, there 
are several very comprehensive on-line parts catalogues that are completely 
free of charge.

>  Then there is the big stuff: an A/C machine, required by  law to do any 
>work on your SAABs climate controlled system,  costs about $15,000.00.

No, a charging station is only required for working with refrigerant.  Most 
of a SAAB climate control system (vents and vent controls, servomotors, 
sensors, electronic controllers, fan motors, heater cores and heater valves) 
can be serviced without disturbing the refrigerant circuit.  A SAAB will go 
at least 8 years (and often longer) on the original refrigerant charge and 
compressor, and when a problem does develop, the customer can be referred to 
an A/C specialist.

>  Emissions testing equipment can run $60,000.00.   Computerized engine 
>analyzers can cost well over  $15,000.00.

Both are unnecessary.  The city or county runs emissions testing centers, if 
emissions testing is even required by law in the area, and an engine 
analyzer does little more than what a cheap compression gauge and leakdown 
tester can do.

>  What do you pay your doctor or lawyer for similar crucially  important 
>expertise ?

Hmm.   Don't know the specifics, but doctors spend 10+ years of their lives 
getting an education and accumulating hundreds of thousands of dollars in 
debt doing it.  They are not *allowed* by law to practice medicine without 
the proper credentials.  The law profession has similar requirements.  The 
auto-service profession in comparison has pretty much NO requirements for 
education, experience, qualification, or membership in professional 
organizations.  You can quite easily get a complete moron wrenching on your 
SAAB and effing it up !

If a doctor grosses $300 and a lawyer $225 per hour, a certified SAAB master 
technician with decades of experience and computer skills might expect to 
take home $40, and the guy who does the oil changes, brake pads and exhaust 
work maybe $10.  Your attempts to compare doctors to auto-mechanics is 
ludicrous, and borders on being offensive.

The average level of auto-service excellence in the USA is miserable, and 
it's much worse than average for low-volume expensive specialty cars like 
SAABs.  Most consumers prefer to lease new cars rather than to buy older 
cars, so that they never have to deal with auto service.  Even 
nearly-bankrupt auto manufacturers with bottom-of-the-barrel quality and 
safety can sell their products, as long as they include a 100,000-mile / 
10-year warranty.

>  Regarding parts prices: ...

There are two types of parts.  Those designed to wear out, and those 
designed to last the life of the vehicle.  The former are priced by SAAB at 
a level that's competitive with it's European competitors, and there are 
aftermarket sources with lower prices.  If a component in the latter 
category is defective, it will become evident during the warranty period and 
will be replaced at no cost to the owner.  That's what the warranty is for.  
In the past, a SAAB owner might have been stuck with the full burden of an 
automatic transmission failure in a 9000 model after 5+ years and 70,000+ 
miles.  But nowadays, new technology and a better choice of suppliers (made 
possible in part by the leverage of General Motors) makes such a failure as 
likely in a SAAB as in a BMW or Mercedes.  (just my opinion)

>  Shops and parts distributors are in general not, as seems  to be common 
>perception, marking parts up exorbitantly.   Standard markups generally run 
>20 to 40%.  Against this  must be deducted costs of shipping, warehousing, 
>as well
>  as credit card costs.  Net margin is actually quite low.

It is a fact that franchised SAAB dealers in the USA have a recommended 
markup of approximately 67% on most parts they sell to the general public.  
Most of these dealers hold very little inventory, so everything but the most 
common wear items are ordered from the SAAB warehouses in PA or CA as they 
are needed.  Furthermore, SAAB provides a 'drop-shipping' service to it's 
dealers, whereby a parts shipment up to a certain size from the warehouse 
costs the dealer a nominal flat fee (something like $5 for 3-day delivery, 
and $20 for overnight delivery).

Some dealers substitute aftermarket parts of equivalent quality without 
adjusting the retail price accordingly, thereby easily doubling or more the 
percent markup.

Since the 67% is only a recommended markup figure, it can easily be much 
higher on an actual customer invoice.

So, franchised SAAB dealers DO have the opportunity to make a significant 
addition to their bottom-line profits through parts sales.  This also 
applies to independent garages that use aftermarket parts sources and/or 
successfully negotiate volume pricing through franchised SAAB dealers.

If the re-selling of parts was not an important revenue stream for dealers 
and independents alike, why would is be so universally unacceptable for a 
customer to bring in their own parts for a particular job ?  There's always 
the liability excuse, but what about signing a waiver ?  I thought not.

Basically, it all boils down to this.  If you're looking for a dealer to 
service your SAAB, consider yourself lucky to find one that actually employs 
hard-working knowledgeable technicians, and one that takes pride in 
servicing the older out-of-warranty cars for their customers.  If you're 
looking for an independent garage, consider yourself lucky if you find one 
that doesn't take every chance they get to throw hundreds (if not thousands) 
of dollars worth of new parts at your older SAAB, and one that doesn't fudge 
their repairs to make sure you come back with the same problem less than two 
years later.  Then again, depeding on where you live, consider yourself 
lucky to find *any* auto service establishment that's even *willing* to try 
to work on your older SAAB !

David.
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