Saabnet.com: General BB Post: Keynes vs. Keynes...

General Bulletin Board

Search:

[Main General Bulletin Board | Post Followup | FAQ ] [ Prev by Date ] [ Next by Date ] Member Login / Signup [Most Recently Edited Saabnet.com Photo Galleries]
Keynes vs. Keynes...
Posted by James (more from James) on Fri, 6 May 2011 06:49:05
In Reply to: Keynesianism is Macro Econ, duh!, Reality, Thu, 5 May 2011 18:27:34

first off, I fully agree, Keynesianism is macroeconomics + thus is aggregate rather than individually oriented (though good macro policy will of course benefit the individual)...

what I wanted to comment on though (I've probably done so before), is there is Keynesian policy and there is Keynesian policy... I know you're bias is libertarian, but, putting one's personal views aside...

When I learned about Keynes in university (almost 20 years ago!), I don't recall any discussion of TBTF. Well executed Keynesian policy involves contractionary policy during good times (eg appropriately raising taxes, decreasing investment in industry, etc) and expansionary policy during bad times (eg lowering taxes, investing in industry), and all policy decisions must carefully take into account lags, various elasticities, etc. The objective is to reduce the magnitude of oscillations in the economy, to stabilize it (as an engineer, I look at it as an exercise in control theory). An annually balanced budget tends to exacerbate economic cycles. The principles are no different than what one should do in one's own personal finances (or the finances of a corporation). Hoard "cash" in good times to use in bad times + provide stability. There was no discussion of "bailouts" however. Well executed policy should be proactive + prudent, not reactionary...

That said, I suppose historically (and I am no historian!!), Keynes himself has been criticized for being spendy... this is often reinforced in real life: governments tend to only run deficits + do things wrong, and that may be a valid argument from the libertarian side: better to just leave well enough alone (vs mess it up worse)... a libertarian might be happy enough with high volatility (where there is a great depression, there is great future opportunity)... and fair enough...

However, that governments *can* be wrong does not mean that they always *are* wrong. There are examples out there of proper Keynesian policy, but I will defer from commenting further to avoid the kind of political discussion not welcome on this bb... what I would like to say though is, the world would be much better off, if we were all much better educated. I find it very frustrating when a government with good fiscal policy gets ejected in favour of another with rather poor fiscal policy, on the basis of election promises. A libertarian might argue that is why we need less government. I would argue, we need a more intelligent electorate that would reject poor governments... perhaps the libertarian view is more realistic! imho, that is rather depressing...

btw, by the above, I do not mean to imply "Reality" (or a libertarian view) is not intelligent... I know he's pretty smart... but on this topic, I view the libertarian view as "might as well just disconnect the thermostat + live with the cold in winter + hot in summer because the one I bought isn't perfect"... which, ironically, I do a little of ;-)...

(I'll stop ranting now)...

James...

posted by 216.59.2...

Posts in this Thread:

Car company bailouts, No Snaab , Thu, 5 May 2011 13:19:51
- GM to add 4,000 jobs, duking it out with Toyota, No Snaab , Wed, 11 May 2011 07:58:09
- Important to see the big picture, Noel , Fri, 6 May 2011 06:16:54
  - Doubly Ironic, Reality, Fri, 6 May 2011 07:00:56
    - So why don't you tell us, Noel , Fri, 6 May 2011 09:45:54
      - He doesn't deal in "reality", No Snaab , Fri, 6 May 2011 11:17:12
        Keynes himself said that, Reality, Fri, 6 May 2011 12:00:56
      - Re: So why don't you tell us, Reality, Fri, 6 May 2011 10:46:21
        You didn't answer the questions, Noel , Fri, 6 May 2011 11:17:54
        Re: You didn't answer the questions, Reality, Fri, 6 May 2011 11:43:04
        Re: You (still) didn't answer the questions, Noel , Fri, 6 May 2011 12:49:13
        He won't answer, No Snaab , Fri, 6 May 2011 14:12:45
        What is Heaven like?, Reality, Fri, 6 May 2011 15:04:00
        less vs more vs balance, James, Fri, 6 May 2011 15:31:40
        Balance is okay, Reality, Fri, 6 May 2011 16:10:30
        What color is the sky in your world?, Noel , Fri, 6 May 2011 16:24:48
        Blue, Black, Grey, White, Orange, Pink, Red,, Reality, Fri, 6 May 2011 16:46:55
        So without the government stepping in, Noel , Fri, 6 May 2011 19:55:24
        We would be in much better shape by now, Reality, Fri, 6 May 2011 20:27:54
        Re: Blue, Black, Grey, White, Orange, Pink, Red,, James, Fri, 6 May 2011 18:11:52
        I'm not for volatility either, Reality, Fri, 6 May 2011 19:35:21
        I should add..., James, Sat, 7 May 2011 04:40:15
        Re: I'm not for volatility either, James, Sat, 7 May 2011 04:04:04
        minor recant, James, Mon, 9 May 2011 19:04:53
        One Step At a Time, Reality, Tue, 10 May 2011 05:58:19
        Re: One Step At a Time, James, Tue, 10 May 2011 12:50:37
        Re: One Step At a Time, Reality, Wed, 11 May 2011 05:01:57
        Re: One Step At a Time, James, Wed, 11 May 2011 11:49:35
        Re: I'm not for volatility either, Reality, Sat, 7 May 2011 05:08:10
        Re: I'm not for volatility either, James, Sat, 7 May 2011 11:36:57
        Re: I'm not for volatility either, Reality, Sat, 7 May 2011 21:45:43
        semantics?, James, Sun, 8 May 2011 09:46:50
        Personal wishful thinking vs. Reality, Reality, Sun, 8 May 2011 12:36:19
        Re: Personal wishful thinking vs. Reality, James, Sun, 8 May 2011 19:25:47
        Re: Personal wishful thinking vs. Reality, Reality, Sun, 8 May 2011 20:18:38
        Re: Personal wishful thinking vs. Reality, James, Mon, 9 May 2011 08:09:19
        Re: Personal wishful thinking vs. Reality, Reality, Mon, 9 May 2011 09:34:24
        Re: Personal wishful thinking vs. Reality, Reality, Mon, 9 May 2011 09:30:05
        circles..., James, Mon, 9 May 2011 10:37:56
        Re: circles..., Reality, Mon, 9 May 2011 11:08:47
        Re: circles..., James, Mon, 9 May 2011 14:04:20
        Re: circles..., Reality, Mon, 9 May 2011 15:47:09
        Re: circles..., James, Mon, 9 May 2011 19:17:11
        Re: circles..., Reality, Tue, 10 May 2011 06:00:59
        Does this hold some record for, Noel , Wed, 11 May 2011 05:32:21
        False Choice, Reality, Fri, 6 May 2011 13:33:38
        Re: False Choice, William, Sat, 7 May 2011 04:14:48
      - Re: So why don't you tell us...Been there done that an, Joeychess, Fri, 6 May 2011 10:22:45
    - That's fiscally responsible and also well stated yet, Joeychess, Fri, 6 May 2011 08:19:33
  - Re: Important to see the big picture...Well said n/m, Joeychess, Fri, 6 May 2011 06:22:03
- Don't kid yourself, BTG88, Thu, 5 May 2011 21:59:15
- Gov't role in today's economy, adl6009, Thu, 5 May 2011 19:17:20
  - Re: Gov't role in today's economy, Reality, Thu, 5 May 2011 19:24:31
- Ironic timing, "new" GM is caught stuffing channel, Reality, Thu, 5 May 2011 13:41:26
  - Macro econ. vs the guy at the plant, AlS , Thu, 5 May 2011 18:16:21
    - Keynesianism is Macro Econ, duh!, Reality, Thu, 5 May 2011 18:27:34
      - "I address car topics under a different user name.", Steve T., Fri, 6 May 2011 08:02:22
        Re: "I address car topics under a different user name.", Reality, Fri, 6 May 2011 08:25:24
        Re: "I address car topics under a different user name.", James, Fri, 6 May 2011 08:33:49
        Thank you, Reality, Fri, 6 May 2011 08:54:24
        Re: Thank you...I dig your verbosity. Hammer away!, Joeychess, Fri, 6 May 2011 09:01:34
      - Keynes vs. Keynes..., James, Fri, 6 May 2011 06:49:05
        Re: Keynes vs. Keynes..., Reality, Fri, 6 May 2011 07:28:58
        Re: Keynes vs. Keynes..., James, Fri, 6 May 2011 08:21:48
        Re: Keynes vs. Keynes..., Reality, Fri, 6 May 2011 09:03:54
        Re: Keynes vs. Keynes..., James, Fri, 6 May 2011 09:46:00
        Re: Keynes vs. Keynes..., Reality, Fri, 6 May 2011 11:27:37
        Re: Keynes vs. Keynes... Pursuit of happiness..., Joeychess, Fri, 6 May 2011 11:57:31
        The good news, Reality, Fri, 6 May 2011 12:32:40
        Correct my friend. Down with the intermediaries! n/m, Joeychess, Fri, 6 May 2011 14:01:32
      - Re: Keynesianism is Macro Econ, duh!, kkelley, Thu, 5 May 2011 20:37:44
        Re: Keynesianism is Macro Econ, duh!, Reality, Thu, 5 May 2011 20:47:01
  - Apparently stuffing the distribution channel works, Paul B., Thu, 5 May 2011 16:33:57
    - That's also called cooking the books, Reality, Thu, 5 May 2011 18:28:21
  - Re: Ironic timing, "new" GM is caught stuffing channel, kkelley, Thu, 5 May 2011 14:50:16
    - Re: Ironic timing, "new" GM is caught stuffing channel, Reality, Thu, 5 May 2011 15:20:56
      - Re: Ironic timing, "new" GM is caught stuffing channel, James, Fri, 6 May 2011 06:58:36
        Re: Ironic timing, "new" GM is caught stuffing channel, Reality, Fri, 6 May 2011 07:43:16
      - Re: Ironic timing, "new" GM is caught stuffing channel, kkelley, Thu, 5 May 2011 20:33:17
        Re: Ironic timing, "new" GM is caught stuffing channel, Reality, Thu, 5 May 2011 20:52:20
        Re: Ironic timing, "new" GM is caught stuffing channel, kkelley, Fri, 6 May 2011 10:59:29
        Re: Ironic timing, "new" GM is caught stuffing channel, Reality, Sat, 7 May 2011 04:47:06
        Banking Blahs...I am shocked at the miniscule rates, Joeychess, Sat, 7 May 2011 06:41:49
        Banking was an honorable profession, Reality, Sat, 7 May 2011 09:06:43

Members can receive an alert when someone posts in this thread.

Post a Followup

Prev by Date: Re: Important to see the big picture...Well said n/m, Joeychess, Fri, 6 May 2011 06:22:03
Next by Date: Re: Ironic timing, "new" GM is caught stuffing channel, James, Fri, 6 May 2011 06:58:36
Main General Bulletin Board

This is a moderated bulletin board - Posting is a privilege, not a right. Unsolicited commercial postings are not allowed (no Spam). Please, no For Sale or Wanted postings, SERIOUSLY. Classifieds are to be listed in The Saab Network Classifieds pages. This is a problem solving forum for over 250,000 Saab owners, so expect to see problems discussed here even though our cars are generally very reliable. This is not an anything goes type of forum. Saabnet.com has been a moderated forum since 1988. For usage guidelines, see the Saabnet.com Mission and Purpose Page. Please remember that you are not anonymous. Site Donations
Your address is: 50.17.109.248 - Using CCBot/2.0 - Logged.

Site Members do not see red text instructions, green links, and bottom of the page banners.
Click here to see all the Site Membership Benefits!

The content on this site may not be republished without permission. Copyright © 1988-2012 - The Saab Network - saabnet.com.