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Posted by Ari [Email] (#2847) [Profile/Gallery] (more from Ari) on Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:38:09 Share Post by Email
In Reply to: HHO generator, turbocon86, Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:56:29
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No offense, but some of the statements there are pure bunk.

"charge the water like a capacitor, and then the volts turn to amps." Cool words, but no technical meaning. Voltage is a potential difference. Amperage is a measure of charge movement. This statement is the equivalent of saying "then the inches turn to weight." Both are units of measure, but they don't convert. Wattage is power, which is related but still different.

If one assumes conservation of energy, there ain't no free lunch. Two atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen have energy. When they get bound into a water molecule, they give up energy. This is a chemical bond, not a nuclear reaction. "Burning" is an example of extracting that energy, and the result is water. Now, if you want to pry the three atoms apart, you need to add energy. You need to add exactly as much energy to pry them apart as they gave up when they joined together. Period.

Hydrogen is a nice fuel. Fuel is just a way to store energy. Carry it around, and when you burn it using available oxygen, it produces energy to drive a car, for example. Or use it in a fuel cell stack. Same principle. You end up with water you can drip on the ground and plants grow. However, you still need energy to make the hydrogen, and electrolysis is a good way. But all you are doing with electrolysis is adding energy to create a fuel which is storing that energy.

Why can't you make electrolysis more efficient? Conservation of energy. Say it takes two joules of energy to split one ounce of water into hydrogen and oxygen (it doesn't, but it's too late in the day for the real numbers). You'll get two joules of energy back when you burn it. But suppose somebody says by charging the ounce of water like a capacitor until the volts turn to amps and hydrogen spills out, they can do it with just one joule. Wow! I get two joules when I burn it and get water vapor, so I can use one of those joules to make the water vapor back into hydrogen and oxygen, and I have a joule left over. In essence, I've just created a joule of energy out of nothing. So I could just re-cycle that ounce of water over and over and keep creating energy. The term for that is perpetual motion; the technical term can't get past the profanity filter.

So, if you believe in conservation of energy, this just doesn't work. If you don't believe in conservation of energy, then this and any other argument is a waste of bits.

Please don't take this for a flame. It's just that it's easy to believe that there's magic out there which somehow no-one has noticed up to now. No-one but this lone inventor bucking all odds.

Galileo was a genius
Galileo was persecuted for his unorthodox beliefs.
I am persecuted for my unorthodox beliefs.

Ergo - I am Galileo!

posted by 76.205.17...
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