Anyone who has taken the time to read Marx seriously ( there's over
50 volumes of the collected works between Marx & Engels) knows
just how much rubbish statements like "Marxism fails to observe are major facts such as human nature (competitiveness), reward systems, and incentives" contains. Marx was scholarly enough to
have read all of the major economists (Smith, Ricardo, etc.),
philosophers (Mills, Bentham, etc), and political writers, of any note. Your statement just proves how dogmatic people from the
Chicago school are when it comes to political or economic thought.
In fact, it's easy to give strong arguments supporting the exact opposite of what you claim about socialism. Where's the incentive
to work under capitalism when the more workers create, the more
their product stands as an alien force against them? Production
for profit has simply created immense wealth, in a very few hands,
at one pole, and abject poverty, for the majority, at the other. People
like Friedman and the Chicago school always approach economics
from the business/profits point of view, whereas Marx approached
economics scientifically and investigated production and the
circulation of commodities with a thorough analysis of social
relations - that is, not just from the capitalists' point of view, but
the workers', also. So don't give me the "if it wasn't for the capitalists,
then there would be no jobs or incentives" line - profit originates in
the social relations of production. If there were no workers, there'd
be no profit, nor production. The fact is, capitalists need workers.
And as soon as workers understand that the converse isn't true,
then that's when production will be motivated by what people
actually need: food, healthcare, education, jobs, etc. Society
needs garbagemen, and in a socialist one, I'm sure it's a job
Milton Friedman can handle.

posted by 12.91.2...

• Kind of OT: Sad story about the production of Saabs..., SuoTimo, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:11:29
  • Too bad, I've always considered.., BobH, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:41:44
  • not really ... It's or the "old" 9-3, Trev, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:43:12
    • Re: not really ... Prod. move to Austria n/m, SuoTimo, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 02:39:15
  • Re: Kind of OT: Sad story about the production of Saabs..., bRAD, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:27:57
    • Kind of OT: Have you read "Stupid White Men"?......., zeke, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:10:53
      • As bad as it is..., b.flippo, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:33:56
      • If they can make "more" profit? Saab LOST $500,000,000, Dinger, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:32:33
      • OK Mr. Smarty Pants, VP, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:25:55
        • HUH! VP you claim that Nordic countries are socialist?, Not Socialist, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 02:36:38
          • Yes I do, VP, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:10:17
            • Add Germany to the List too!, VP, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:18:31
        • Re: OK Mr. Smarty Pants, zeke, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:33:37
          • Don't be so sure., VP, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:14:26
        • UH...HERES AN IDEA...., 91Aero.jr, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:55:49
          • "Greed" is not just an American Phenomenon., Terraplanem, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:58:04
          • Agree somewhat., VP, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:08:04
            • Re: Agree somewhat., avanti, Fri, 7 Feb 2003 01:38:00
            • Disagree..., bRAD, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:07:32
              • Estate Tax, Terraplanem, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:00:35
                • I'm unfamilliar with the US taxation system..., bRAD, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:06:28
                  • Estate tax: if you have a large estate, IIRC over 1mil, Terraplanem, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:24:57
              • Were you in my Econ class?->, roman, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:38:54
              • Re: Disagree..., VP, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:18:31
                • No argument there..., bRAD, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:38:58
                  • Indeed, but in the words of Gerhardt Richter,, Terraplanem, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:08:57
                  • Now, there is a distinct difference between..., b.flippo, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:10:53
                    • Well said, VP, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:05:50
                      • I think many of you are unclear about your own beliefs+, roman, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:29:53
                        • Marxism, VP, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:42:59
                          • Wrong!, competetion has nothing to do with it->, roman, Fri, 7 Feb 2003 15:40:56
                          • Marxism according to Friedman, you mean....., zeke, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:15:04 <-- Viewing This Message
                            • That model will work with small groups., Dave Westlake, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:31:49
                          • Re: Marxism, Terraplanem, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:57:39
                            • I've been in a Lada....., Dave Westlake, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:26:26
                              • Slightly better than walking, but only in inclement, Terraplanem, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 18:28:07
                      • Any economic system..., bRAD, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:01:31
                    • You weren't in Toronto last summer..., bRAD, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:51:41
            • Yes indeed...., 91Aero.jr, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:18:35
        • Re: OK Mr. Smarty Pants, Eli5, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:16:56
          • Thinking before posting, VP, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:41:12
            • Well it is cheaper to design in mexico as well..., Eli5, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:07:57
              • The quality issue w/r/t VW's Mexican operations have, Terraplanem, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:33:59
                • I owned a 2000 Mexican Jetta..., bRAD, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:40:26
                  • Word on the R32. I am well satisfied with the quality, Terraplanem, Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:06:22
            • Are you a VW brand manger / consultant? n/m, Jon in Chicago, Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:03:43

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