Saab Viggen: EPA rated 28/19. 230hp, 0-60 6.5(?) seconds (although I've seen one reviewer report 7 seconds)

Acura CL Type s: Same EA rating, 260 hp, 0-60 6.4 seconds. Not much different, and at a $7-8K less price.

BMW 330i: 27/19, 225hp, 0-60 6.7 seconds.

Almost statistically insiginificant differences among three of Saab's closest competitors.

Look, I own a Viggen, I love the car dearly and picked it above all those cars (and more than a few more). But "ecopower" suggests environmentally friendly power. I take that to mean less emissions (but most cars on the road today, save the Honda ULEV stuff, are roughly the same there) and less fuel consumption. Which the Saab ain't got.

I may have exaggerated a little talking about the V8, but V8's at the bleeding edge nowadays pull in the high 200's to low 300's in HP. So, there's a BIG power difference. And don't tell me you could tweak a turbo 4 to get that kind of performance -- Saab hasn't done it, almost no one has (except maybe non-US market Scooby WRX-STi's and Mitsu EVO's at a listed 276hp (likely more)). The refinements in power you need start to affect overall driveability, durability and reliability -- sure the car will perform but it may not last long.

Anyway, I agree with you that Saab's extract tons of power from small displacement, and I personally LOVE the gobs of torque and hate the peaky Honda-type engines. But you can't say that Saab engines are more "eco" than anyone else. Maybe more efficient at pulling out power from a given displacement (although look at Honda's RSX and S2000....), but so far that doesn't seem to translate to better fuel efficiency.

posted by 208.200.185...

• 300bhp V8 9-5 due in 2004, Paul , Wed, 25 Sep 2002 21:54:04
  • look to the future and go diesel saab (long), Liam, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:13:26
    • With diesel, every combustion is a ping. Not smooth. nm, J, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:32:52
      • I also hear thatthe spark plugs are tough to replace :), b.flippo, Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:08:49
        • What?, bRAD, Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:25:27
          • turbo-compound??, JimBlake , Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:20:27
          • Check your muffler bearings, too. n/m, b.flippo, Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:52:53
          • are you joking?, J, Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:39:59
            • Re: are you joking?, bRAD, Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:50:35
    • Local economics does it!, but not in U.S..., Mike Lynch , Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:27:20
    • Saab does it too, bRAD, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 13:13:23
  • I'd much rather see Variable Compression Ratio Engine, J, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 15:57:34
  • Couple points, Eric Law, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 12:30:54
  • This is a step backward for Saab........, zeke, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 11:40:18
    • Let's clear a common misconception:, Hood, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 11:20:18
      • technical counter-point to efficiency question., J, Sat, 28 Sep 2002 01:09:02
      • I know this is anecdotal, but........., zeke, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 15:31:53
        • I agree that Saab's have great engine efficiency...., Hood, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 17:50:25
          • My S2000. 240hp and ULEV..., b.flippo, Sat, 28 Sep 2002 18:10:40
      • Your mileage may vary, Eric Law, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 14:22:40
      • Re: Let's clear a common misconception:, Tony Basile, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 13:16:36
        • Well, here's a few:, Hood, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 17:40:51 <-- Viewing This Message
          • Wrong on two counts here............., zeke, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 20:43:09
          • So how do they get the EPA numbers?, AdamB , Fri, 27 Sep 2002 18:54:06
        • Agree Tony. Which V8s get 28 mpg. I'd like one.n/m, Texron, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 13:34:02
          • Hell, an LT1 Camaro will get 28mpg on the highway..., Craig, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 15:26:47
            • So will an '89 Mustang LX 5.0, Jason, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 19:53:06
            • But I bet it doesn't get 25 MPG at 100+ Mph...nm, AdamB , Fri, 27 Sep 2002 15:45:10
          • One word... Northstar., b.flippo, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 14:00:03
            • Re: One word... Northstar., Tony Basile, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:45:11
              • Variable Valve Timing..., b.flippo, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 19:20:10
    • This reaffirms my statement:, b.flippo, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 12:49:39
      • This sort of logic reminds me of......., zeke, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 17:56:36
        • They haven't destroyed anything..., b.flippo, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 18:14:49
          • ... We all have to make a deal with the devil ..., J, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 18:50:22
            • Wow. I'm teary eyed. n/m, b.flippo, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 19:25:17
  • Not sure about this, RedSPG18, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 01:30:19
    • I agree, but..., No.9, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 10:54:25
    • It's all about sales, my friend..., b.flippo, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:24:23
      • I partly agree ..., J, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 16:15:08
        • Remember..., b.flippo, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 16:37:15
          • Re: 450 hp, all wheel drive, hatchback?, officeboy, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 19:31:14
          • Re: Remember..., J, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 16:59:08
      • This is heresy, but what SAAB needs..., Jason, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 10:55:42
        • No way, dude, Hood, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 11:26:14
          • Re: No way, dude, Jason, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:13:51
        • By the way..., b.flippo, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 12:45:52
          • VW has already announced no W8 in next Passat n/m, elSaab, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 13:36:32
            • You'll see the W8 in the U.S..., b.flippo, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 15:21:29
            • Where did you hear that? n/m, bRAD, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 13:40:22
              • It was Autoweek, I think>>, elSaab, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 13:50:07
                • For anyone else who'd like to see.., bRAD, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 14:05:20
                  • Passat W8, Jason, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 20:11:37
                    • I've seen three, bRAD, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 10:43:44
                      • Hmm!, Jason, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:19:39
        • We designed a gorgeous SUV..., b.flippo, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 12:43:12
          • 256?, bRAD, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 13:05:58
            • It was scrapped during the second quarter this year.n/m, b.flippo, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 13:45:32
              • You are referring to the 266. The 256 was the, Price, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 15:42:54
                • It was a bummer when..., b.flippo, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 16:09:26
                  • Jesus, an exact copy of the Rendezvous?, Hood, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 11:30:00
                    • That's why it was discontinued..., b.flippo, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:31:48
      • Well put!! (nm), VP, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 10:26:53
    • Re: Not sure about this, JBinMD, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 08:34:00
  • Dang..., waSAABi , Thu, 26 Sep 2002 01:09:05
    • torque steer anyone? :-) n/m, J, Thu, 26 Sep 2002 15:45:28
  • Re: 300bhp V8 9-5 due in 2004, Jo K, Wed, 25 Sep 2002 21:55:37

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