"Ever read about what it was like working in factories before workers organized themselves in unions?"

Wasn't this shortly after the Industrial Revolution? Unions made a lot of sense back then. And they still do, for some things, such as oversight of working conditions.

I think the point Noel is making is that unions keep asking for more and more, each year wanting a dramatic increase in pay, benefits, etc. I don't know any of the workers there, but it's a general principle that individuals who know they are not evaluated on merit will, at some point, stop caring about quality. If this continues long enough, like it has at GM, it creates a CULTURE of sub-par work, where mediocrity is the norm.

Yes, I'm sure there are exceptions to the generalization, but we're talking about the trend in a big company.

"GM used to employ as many people in the US as it now does worldwide" What does this tell you? To me, I look for the reason that GM now has more employees worldwide than in the US. As the saying goes, follow the money. Again, I don't know the details, but I would bet the ranch (if I had one) that it is cheaper to build cars overseas than it is in the US. Why is that? I don't believe it to be a plausible argument that the unions are not partially responsible for this situation. High labor costs in the US would cause ANY company to seek to find labor somewhere else. However, GM management also needs to be held responsible, and also in there somewhere is probably the US and state governments.

<rant mode on>

If you really want to see an union that intimidates, looking at the public school teacher's union in PA. For a job that is only NINE MONTHS A YEAR, starting wages are much higher than other fields. And don't tell me that I'm comparing apples to oranges, or "they provide necessary services." I'm in Human Services as well (MR adults), and my salary can't even touch a teacher who has the same number of years in as I do.

<rant mode off>

Have a great Easter.
Urby

posted by 65.105.13...

• GM Says It May Kill Off One of Its Brands, dmz789, Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:28:49
  • Why not manufacture everything in China?, Draken, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:51:02
    • Good question., dmz789, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:31:14
    • Re: Why not manufacture everything in China?, compaqted, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:30:20
      • Re: Why not manufacture everything in China?, Draken, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:18:21
  • need to be lean and mean, compaqted, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:11:35
    • sounds great, TML , Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:13:58
    • Now now... I'd agree with that, but fold Saab?, NateinAA, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:31:58
  • To a certain extent they get what they deserve, Noel, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 07:26:32
    • Anti-union, eh?......, Blobakazeke, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:21:05
      • Re: Anti-union? Absolutely!, Noel, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:53:19
        • Anti-unionism and the corporate state..., Blobakazeke, Fri, 25 Mar 2005 07:34:57
          • Re: Anti-unionism and the corporate state..., 2 9-5's, Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:28:16
            • There are some times when you have no other option, RS , Fri, 25 Mar 2005 11:34:45
        • Re: Anti-union? Absolutely!, 2 9-5's, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:20:13
      • Zeke isn't totally off-base here, it is true that the, Drew in Houston, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:50:47
      • Re: Anti-union, eh?......, 2 9-5's, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:50:13
        • I think I should've been a diplomat ..., Urby, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:11:10
      • Re: Anti-union, eh?......, Urby, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:48:04 <-- Viewing This Message
        • On Teachers..(and more)..>>>, PGAero , Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:31:32
  • Killing brands is just plain stupid IMHO....more, Mark, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 03:49:16
  • Things to consider REALLY LONG, Caarma , Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:17:25
    • Re: Things to consider REALLY LONG, mac, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:42:08
  • Buick?, Draken, Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:58:26
  • I'd kill off more than two . . ., miked, Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:50:12
    • it's a good point, Scott Paterson , Wed, 23 Mar 2005 23:54:42
  • Re: GM Says It May Kill Off One of Its Brands, Drew in Houston, Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:23:06
    • Re: GM Says It May Kill Off One of Its Brands, dmz789, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 00:27:16
      • Re: GM Says It May Kill Off One of Its Brands, Drew in Houston, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 04:49:42
  • Re: GM Says It May Kill Off One of Its Brands, 2 9-5's, Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:27:45
    • A Caddy with 120K miles on it is, Noel, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 07:11:41
      • agreed - caddy is safe too, Scott Paterson , Fri, 25 Mar 2005 18:24:52
    • Kill the Impaler, nypb, Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:28:51
      • Re: Kill the Impaler, Stan, Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:27:27
  • Re: GM Says It May Kill Off One of Its Brands, Erik W, Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:28:06
    • easy way to save money, Brian_in_MA, Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:39:16
  • Buick is very strong in Red China, Sam, Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:29:11
    • Chinese Buicks Different than American Ones?, Draken, Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:06:46
      • Even the Chinese get better GMs then we do, Mark, Wed, 23 Mar 2005 23:29:22
  • Re: GM Says It May Kill Off One of Its Brands, dboone, Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:58:03
  • No mention of Saab, but it's always possible. Still...., Noel, Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:09:09
    • I like your ideas, but... (very long), MO, Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:13:08
  • If they kill Pontiac, Rafe, Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:44:21

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