Re: Performance with muffler/ without revealed... - Saab Performance Bulletin Board - Saabnet.com
The banner above is an advertisment - if it asks you to download software, please ignore.
Site News -
5/28: SAAB Evolutions/TSN T-Shirts $14 |
5/23: SOC Day Pass Winners Announceed
[General |
Members |
C900 |
9000 |
NG900 & OG93 |
93 |
95 |
NG95 |
99 |
Sonett |
Vintage Models |
Clubs |
Other Cars |
FAQs |
Gifts |
Member Photo Galleries |
Member Directory |
Classifieds |
Manuals |
*Buddy Registry |
*Mileage Registry |
Polls |
What's New |
Raffle |
Photo of the Month |
Sponsors]
[Main Performance Bulletin Board | BBFAQ |
Prev by Date | Post Followup ]
Member Login / Signup - Members see fewer ads. - Latest Member Gallery Photos
Re: Performance with muffler/ without revealed...
Posted by matsuda [Email] (more from matsuda) on Thu, 8 Feb 2007 17:08:15
In Reply to: Performance with muffler/ without!!!!!!!, Aerohead [Profile/Gallery]
, Tue, 30 Jan 2007 14:34:02
Members do not see ads below this line. - Help Keep This Site Online - Signup
It's a combination of both.
Primarily it is simple pressure physics -
On a turbocharger, the less pressure after the exhaust turbine, the more the pressure drop from the exhaust port past the turbine to the outlet - the exhaust spins faster, thus the intake spins faster (and the feedback effect creates runaway until the wastegate opens) Thus a larger exahust on a turbo (up to the point of a fully open exit) will always allow the turbo to pump better.
In the case of a full open (no exhaust) there can be some unique pressure problems to solve dumping straight to atmosphere, but in physics the simple answer is always the best, and in this case it involves the engine management system on the car - it literally can't handle an open exhaust! I ran it once that way myself and noticed the same thing. dropping the post cat it ran great, but dropping it all it seemed to be suffering - it wasn't as loud as no exhaust on a V8 (because the turbo partly quiets the exhaust) but the spool was still limited - the computer couldn't keep up and was dialing back the timing and boost and it was off the maps.
Why would I think that? I've dealt with turbos for a long time on early CPU and non-ECU cars - one good example is a rotary turbo (RX7) - the hard pulses from an open port are much more violent than a slow opening valve, and the turbos on that car spin up fast - when I ran one of those with no exhaust (AND with an old carburator) it would spin the tires in three gears as the boost gauge slapped the needle hard. I also ran a 63 corvair (sidedraft carb) and no exhaust - being an OLD turbo it still had lag even with no muffler (the pipe out has a dent in it to clear the spare tire!) but it still ran quickest (and ate the most gas...)
So the twofold answer is that you're just tweaking for more power, but still have to stay in the ballpark. Just like steroids cause problems because the system wasn't designed around them the same applies to your car - that's why racing cars that are designed around only high rpm operation would be dogs on the street if they carried the weight a normal car did.
So keep your good sounding exhaust on (and the cops off your back! - ever noticed how slow a harley is with no weight but all that noise! No backpressure means less torque on those motors than an equivalent japanese or german motorcycle... all show and no go)
posted by 70.244.20...
Posts in this Thread:
- Performance with muffler/ without!!!!!!!, Aerohead , Tue, 30 Jan 2007 14:34:02
- Re: Performance with muffler/ without revealed..., matsuda, Thu, 8 Feb 2007 17:08:15 <-- Viewing This Message
- Re: Performance with muffler/ without!!!!!!!, SWEDISH DYNAMICS, Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:37:32
- Velocity and Scavenging...myth?, Chad, Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:41:03
- Scavenging is for increasing the VE of N/A engines..., Jonathan Scupin , Thu, 1 Feb 2007 20:02:39
- Re: Scavenging is for increasing the VE of N/A engines..., Aerohead , Fri, 2 Feb 2007 16:00:05
- Yea, but the engines are na until the turbo spools!, John Williams , Fri, 2 Feb 2007 12:00:27
- they're really not, TML , Sun, 4 Feb 2007 13:50:18
- Re: Yea, but the engines are na until the turbo spools!, Chad, Fri, 2 Feb 2007 12:27:43
- good point, John!, Jonathan Scupin , Fri, 2 Feb 2007 12:18:40
- Re: Scavenging is for increasing the VE of N/A engines..., Chad, Fri, 2 Feb 2007 07:23:52
- Heady stuff, turbocon86, Wed, 31 Jan 2007 08:41:45
Members do not see ads below this line. - Help Keep This Site Online - Signup
Post a Followup
No Site Registration is Required to Post - Site Membership is optional (Member Features List), but helps to keep the site online
for all Saabers. If the site helps you, please consider helping the site by becoming a member.
StateOfNine.com
|
SaabClub.com
|
Jak Stoll Performance
|
M Car Covers
|
Ad Available
|
Random Saabnet.com Member Gallery Photos (Click Image)
This is a moderated bulletin board - Posting is a privilege, not a right.
Unsolicited commercial postings are not allowed (no spam). Please, no For Sale or Wanted postings, SERIOUSLY.
Classifieds are to be listed in The Saab Network Classifieds pages.
This is a problem solving forum for over 250,000 Saab owners, so expect to see
problems discussed here even though our cars are generally very reliable. This is not an anything goes
type of forum. Saabnet.com has been a moderated forum since 1988. For usage guidelines, see the
Saabnet.com Mission and Purpose Page. Please remember that you are
not anonymous. Site Contact | Site Donations | Other Sites by SP -
Poverty2Prosperity.org | Run Club Menlo Park | ScreenBot
Site Members do not see red text instructions, bottom of the page anchor ads, or box ads.
Click here to see all
the Site Membership Benefits!