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Re: GM Purchase
Posted by Ryan Fellini (more from Ryan Fellini) on Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:47:17
In Reply to: , Kok Chen, Sat, 17 Dec 1988 12:00:00 

a few clarifications (being a huge fan of Alfas and
Saabs):

> Yes,FIAT owns ALL of Alfa Romeo.  FIAT picked it up at a reasonable price
> at the end of the '80's (1989 ?), beating out FORD through a  corrupt
> bargain between the two Italian car companies.

well, corrupt bargain...  this is Ford's rather constant
cry baby version because they lost out.  Sure the Gov't
was biased towards a domestic company that made promises
to them about jobs.  Ford did not.  If the US Govt owned
Cadillac, and it was being bidded on by Ford or Toyota..
who do you think would win?  Ford is also still upset
over not getting Ferrari when it went up for sale, way
back when. They got Volvo now (beating out Fiat this
time).. so maybe now they can rest well at night..hehe.

> FIAT also owns Lancia.  A special division of FIAT owns Ferarri and I think
> one other company...i always forget that one.  That special division is not
> a part of the deal between FIAT and GM.

Fiat Group is the company.  They own New Holland, Iveco,
Magneti Marelli, Teksid, Fiat Auto, etc., etc.  Fiat Auto
is a division made up of Lancia, Alfa Romeo, and Fiat cars.
Fiat Group let GM take a stake of 20% in Fiat Auto (which
is equivalent to about 10% of the Fiat Group).  In exchange
Fiat Group gets 5.1% of GM common stock (which will be
about 5.9% by summer's end).  Fiat has by far the most to
gain from this share-swapping/alliance.

> But are FIAT's other operations part of the deal with GM ?  i dont know...
> probably not.

No... not directly.  But one would assume some cross sharing
in technology would also be used in Ferrari, Maserati, and
Iveco.  You know.. like some of those advanced Cadillac
land-boat suspension systems?  They are great in a new
Ferrari. :)

> The SAAB 9000 and the Alfa Romeo 164 and a FIAT (the Thema , i think) share
> a platform that the three companies developed together (when FIAT and
> Lancia were separate).  Interestingly, though all front wheel drive, the
> SAAB used a four cylinder engine (ofcourse), while the 164's came with four
> and sixes (only sixes in the USA), but the FIAT used a V-8 !

Lancia has been part of the Fiat Group since the late 60's
or early 70's.  The project was collaboration between Saab, and
Fiat Group's Alfa Romeo, Lancia, and Fiat divisions.
The cars were:  Saab 9000, Alfa Romeo 164, Lancia Thema,
and Fiat Croma.  The Fiat Croma did not have a V8.
There was a Ferrari powered version of the Lancia Thema,
which had a V8 (an incredible car!!!)

> Also, sitting in the 164 after owning a 9000, you realize just how
> excellent the Swedish engineers are at maximizing interior volume in a
> front wheel drive.   The 164 is much much smaller inside.

..and you will find how much better the 164 is with respect
to the engine (the V6 was amazing), transmission, and
handling (nothing beats an Alfa for the $$$$).

> I love my 9000 T , because i like to think it is part Alfa, somewhere under
> there (or at least my extremely safe car has design elements from a
> wonderful company like Alfa)...but is it fair to say that the 164 likewise
> has design elements of the SAAB ?  WHat i want to know : IS the 164 as
> structurally strong as a 9000 in safety terms ?

Product platforms can be extremely generic.  You would
be impressed to know just how different a Saab 9000,
Alfa Romeo 164, or Fiat Croma is.  The greatest
accomplishment was just how good these cars all were.

I believe the new 9-3 is based on the Opel Vectra,
and the 9-5 on the Opel Omega?  Does anyone know if
this is true?

> The Alfa Romeo Milano was a rather expensive to build rear wheel drive car
> that FIAT scrapped when they took Alfa over.  Offered from 1987 to 1989, it
> was a truly superior rear wheel drive sedan, the platform of which was also
> used for the GTV-6 two door hatch back Alfa Romeos...

The Alfa 75 was indeed one fantastic car (I believe BMW
took many lessons from this machine). :)
Don't be mislead though.  New Alfa Romeos: 156 (155 and 75
replacement), GTV & Spider, 166, upcoming 147.. are AMAZING
machines... Fiat Group has done awesome work with this
company.

take care,

Ryan
Saab 900 2.0 16v Turbo
Alfa Romeo 75Q 3.0 V6
Ducati 650SS Gio.Ca.Moto

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